Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill

I think that if the noble Lord were to ask Señor Torres, he would find that a draw is also sometimes a victory. He is the Chelsea centre forward. I know that the noble Lord, Lord Bach, is a Leicester City supporter and does not mix in that kind of high-class company. I was very grateful for the comments at the beginning of the speech of the noble Lord. I notice that he quickly tailed off towards the end to start initiating rebellions, and so on. I have continually made the point that I am well aware that any Minister is a bird of passage, but I have always been a lover of this place—I mean the whole Parliament building. I sometimes say when I show visitors around that I never come into this place without a sense of awe for what it stands for and what it does. Anyone who stands at this Dispatch Box takes the buffeting and advice and has to work through very much with the help of the awkward squad. The only problem with the awkward squad is that when one campaign is over it immediately starts on another. I noticed from the remarks of the noble Lords, Lord Avebury and Lord Wigley and, indeed, the noble Lord, Lord Alton, himself that further campaigns will be on the way. I can absolutely guarantee that we will work in a synchronised way with the DWP. That is not such a surprise. It is a sign of our industrial heritage that quite by chance my noble friend Lord Freud and I have family members who have died of this horrible disease. Taking the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, when my sister died of it, because it was not possible to identify which of her employers had been responsible, there was no way forward for her. I do not think we need to worry. Certainly while my noble friend Lord Freud and I are responsible for this, we will make sure that there is a sense of urgency in our approach to these matters. If the insurance industry were to start playing fast and loose or stalling on this matter, I would suggest that it researched the Hansards of these debates and it would know that it was storing up significant trouble for itself. I have helpfully been sent the replies to the questions asked by the noble Lord, Lord Alton. I mentioned that the report will be synchronised. Commencement of the provisions in Part 2 will be by statutory instrument in the usual way. They do not require the approval of both Houses. The amendment means that the commencement cannot begin on mesothelioma claims until a review has been carried out and a report published on the likely effect of the provisions on mesothelioma claims. Questions were asked about whether people will be able to give evidence to that review and who will be on it. At this moment, it is very difficult to give firm commitments, but given the list of usual suspects interested in this case we are not going to be in the business of trying to put forward some kind of whitewash scheme. We will make sure that this is a proper review and that Parliament has a proper opportunity to see the outcome. If asbestos victims want to contribute to such a review, it makes sense that they should do so. Certainly, I would not want a barrier to that. My noble friend Lord Thomas's suggestion is not a matter for government, but I hope that the campaigning organisations in this area take note of it because it is a useful initiative on claiming success fees. I think I have covered the questions that were asked. I am extremely grateful for the contributions. At the beginning of the Bill, I could not even say ““mesothelioma””, but now I manage to get it out. We should thank the campaigning organisations outside. Sometimes we hear about lobbying, and everybody sees it in the most sinister terms. Sometimes lobbying is very good and very helpful to Parliament in its work. This is a case where lobbyists have found parliamentary champions who have had an impact. As I say, this is something that neither the noble Lord, Lord Freud, nor I will lose sight of—and even if we tried to, the awkward squad would keep us up to the mark. I beg to move. Motion C agreed.