Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill

My Lords, I listened with very great care to what the Minister said in support of his Motion. I listened to see whether there had been significant movement in the Government's understanding of the damage that the restriction that remains in relation to domestic violence provision would do to victims, to their children and to the men engaged in this sort of behaviour. I have to say that I listened with disappointment. I do not hesitate to adopt all the comments made by the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, on the Government's approach to Part 1 of the Bill. I reiterate immediately my appreciation for the fact that the Government have at last moved on definition, and to an extent in relation to the evidential gateway, but I find myself echoing what was said by the noble Lord, Lord Pannick: it was something that we should not have had to ask and press for for so long. It should have been freely and immediately given because it was founded on a fundamental joint understanding of domestic violence, which had been shared, I believed, by all sides of the House for the past 13 years of our Government, and which I was innocent enough to believe was still shared and understood today. In looking at the amendments, I reassure the noble Lord immediately that I understand that the Government seek to break with the past and with the way in which we provided justice for individuals in our country through the provision of legal aid. That is something that I understand and regret. I also acknowledge that it is the Government's intention to limit their exposure to costs incurred by legal aid and to narrow the scope of provision. At the moment, 265,000 people a year get legal help. That will reduce by 79 per cent to 55,000 under the Bill. I understand that that is the Government's intention and it is something that I regret. At the moment, 112,500 people a year get legal representation. This will reduce by 40 per cent to 67,500 people a year under the Bill. That is something I also regret. The impact that changes to private family law and legal aid will have on women, is another area where it was accepted in the equality impact assessment in the reform of legal aid consultation, that it would be the largest number of potential users of legal aid who would be affected by these reforms. It was also accepted that clients in this category were more likely to be female than in any other category of law except education. They represent 63 per cent of total clients, excluding those who have not identified their gender. This proportion exceeds that of the 16-plus population, which is 51 per cent, and that of all affected cases involving females, which is 56 per cent. I accept that it is an intentional policy decision by the Government to remove that support. I have just told the noble Lord that that is something that I regret, but I accept it. However, we have to look at the provision that will be lost if the amendments go through. The noble Lord knows that at the moment, for ancillary leave proceedings, if an applicant fulfils the financial criteria and is given legal aid, any money that they receive over and above £2,500 can be recouped from them by the Legal Services Commission. If the person has money, £2,500 is the extent of the support that we as a country are minded to give litigants. The noble Lord knows only too well that the longevity of the domestic violence issue far outlives a two-year period. Many women will never go to the police, to local authorities, to refuges or to their GP. They simply run. Sometimes they run to their families, and sometimes they do not even seek ancillary relief. However, those women and their children will still have to respond if the perpetrator brings ancillary relief proceedings against them, whether in relation to maintenance, residence or contact, and if that comes after the arbitrary two-year time limit, the perpetrator, who will often be the more financially advantaged, will have the wherewithal to bring those proceedings, and the victim and her children will have no legal aid to support them. That is why, unlike the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, I will insist that we look at this again. The other place gave cursory attention to these issues. If this is the only issue that will be returned to it, perhaps it will be able to consider it at greater leisure. If it does, perhaps the sagacity of this House will assist it to do a little better than it has to date. As for why I am pressing our amendments, although the time limit is a huge issue of importance, so is the scope. As the noble Lord knows, if one has a valid claim, the only criteria or gateway ordinarily required is that cogent evidence or information be brought before the court to persuade it that that assertion is correct and valid. The imposition of the time limit on this occasion is not justified in view of the way in which domestic violence occurs—it flies in the face of our deep understanding of that phenomenon. It is important that we look at the places where applicants go: it is not just to refuges. For example, we know that many councils outsource their provision of outreach services to CABs or local third sector organisations, knowing that they can be more effective at satisfying needs than state social services. Those agencies need to be included. At the moment the gateway does not include information from the police that there have been a number of attendances at a matrimonial home. The noble Lord will know that many victims do not press the matter on to charge or to conviction. The police may have been called many times, but if there is not a charge or a caution, the applicant—victim—will not be able to rely on that for legal aid. The framework that we suggest in my amendment, which would be better placed in legislation, is just that: there is room within my amendment, if the Government so wished, to bring further regulations, to amend or alter; but the framework would be set in a way that is helpful. Noble Lords will know that this Bill has already made provision for modification. The concessions made in relation to Clause 9(2) mean that we now have an in-built procedure to remove, add or modify Schedule 1 by order, subject to the affirmative procedure. If we were to maintain the framework in legislation, there is a perfectly acceptable means of doing so. The noble Lord also knows that if we deal with this issue only by affirmative resolution, we can either accept or reject, and it is a very blunt instrument. Therefore, I suggest to the House strongly that our position would better secure the well-being of the victims. We have a choice to make today. It is about the quality of the country we wish to live in. Domestic violence victims are the most vulnerable. One in four women will be affected by this, one in six men and 950,000 children. I ask the Government to think again. It will be too late to say we are sorry when we find that because we did not give legal aid in relation to ancillary and other proceedings to genuine victims, people died. This is not a case when we can say, ““We do not know. We hope it will not happen””. We have the empirical data. Over the last 30 years, we have learnt those lessons, so it is not a case of, ““If we do this, it will be all right””. From my 35 years' experience in this area, I can tell the House it will not. What we do really matters. There are women and children in this country who are frightened today because of what we are doing in this Bill, and if we wish to assist them, we will ask the other place to think again. Noble Lords know that my amendments also deal with the child abuse issue in relation to the extension of the time limit. I will be asking the House to support me for one last time on this matter. The Government may have their way. This may be the final time we speak on this issue. I understand that this ping must have its final pong, but this is the last throw of the dice and it is important that we ask the Government to think again. The reason why the churches, charities and third sector organisations are all supporting this amendment is that they have to deal, day by day, with the reality of what we will do. I therefore beg to move.