Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill

My Lords, I thank those who have contributed to this short debate. I am grateful to my noble friend the Minister for replying in the way that she has, which I acknowledge was an attempt to be helpful. As I pointed out earlier, the reality is that there are 35 probation trusts. Lord Justice Goldring says that no more than two magistrates should attend, and then only as observers and advisers. The forum that she referred to meets quarterly to discuss major management issues, with three senior members of the magistracy, two judges and two senior probation officers present. I have been addressing the issue that involves 27,000 magistrates visiting the important projects in the areas in which they work so that they can make more informed disposals and understand what is going on. This is also in the interest of good sentencing, good decisions and safer communities. We have not touched on this, but the magistrates do a great deal of work to help keep the standard of these projects very high so that the best possible practice can be realised. I was hoping to hear a bit more about that. I was terribly interested in the ““blue book”” story from the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham. It is another example of what this is about; namely, that seeing is believing and engaging with people, rather than talking about an issue once a quarter or having the occasional visit from probation officers with some information. You cannot get the same insight. I do not think that anything can supplant the actual experience. As my noble friend mentioned, we have two reviews coming up—one on the magistracy and another on probation. Perhaps the underpinning of the work we have done on this subject during the passage of this Bill will inform a much more focused debate than we have been able to have with my one small amendment. Given the lateness of the hour and in the hope that that is where we will get some positive results, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment 32 withdrawn. Clause 77 : Alcohol abstinence and monitoring requirement Amendment 33 Clause 77 : Alcohol abstinence and monitoring requirement Amendment 33 Moved by