Scotland Bill

My Lords, I begin by thanking my noble friends the Leader of the House and the Chief Whip for their courtesy in dealing with the first part of my amendment, in so far as a timetable Motion has been brought forward to ensure that those parts of the Bill which are concerned with matters that are subject to consultation will be dealt with at a later stage. I am grateful to the usual channels on all sides of the House for ensuring that that happened. It is a happy remedy to the problem that was created by the consultation paper setting a date of 9 March for responses. Consultation papers on referenda seem to be a bit like buses: just when you are not expecting any, two come along. We have a competing consultation paper from Alex Salmond and the Scottish Executive, which was launched yesterday in no less grand a place than the Great Hall of Edinburgh Castle, which in my day was used only for state and non-controversial occasions. It would be a bit like the Prime Minister launching a consultation paper on a matter of controversy in the great hall here at Westminster—something I know he would never contemplate doing. I am afraid that I have a number of questions for my noble friend and for the Government on the second part of my amendment, which deals with the issue of legislative consent. Perhaps I may dwell for the moment on the consultation paper that has been released by the Scottish Executive. That has a deadline for responses of 9 May, which is after this Session of Parliament is likely to have ended. The Chief Whip on the opposition Benches is shaking his head. Perhaps it may be possible for us to continue discussions on the Scotland Bill beyond 9 May, with his agreement—I think not. I am very concerned about this competing consultation paper. First, it proposes an absolutely rigged question on independence. It is a loaded question; those who were listening to the ““Today”” programme will have heard the advice from a completely impartial US expert which confirms that. The question invites the answer ““Yes””. That the First Minister is suggesting that loaded question, and that the Electoral Commission, which I am delighted to say he has now agreed should be involved, should be unable to opine on the question, makes me very concerned about the First Minister’s ability to deliver a referendum campaign that would be fair and balanced let alone legal. What is being proposed in the consultation paper that has been released is not a referendum at all, and what the First Minister is proposing is the most expensive opinion poll in history—it will cost £10 million. It will not be a decisive referendum, because the authority of the Westminster Parliament would be required to achieve that. He is planning on having a very expensive opinion poll; and if he succeeds in getting a result of yes, he would enter negotiations with the Government, and people would then discover what they had been voting for in his referendum. That seems quite the wrong way round. There is an opportunity for us to amend the Bill to ensure that we have a properly conducted and fair referendum that will be decisive, to bring this matter to a conclusion, and to ensure that all the arguments and information are made available to the voters in advance. As for this consultation paper, I am also concerned about the Government’s attitude—I would like to have a response from the Minister—both to the question and to the fact that the Electoral Commission’s role is to be rigged. The commission will not be able to carry out its duties, as it did most recently in the referendum on AV. Not only was the Electoral Commission responsible for that referendum but the chief executive was the accounting officer. It seems to me that that should also be the position in a matter as serious as deciding whether to break up the United Kingdom. Not only does the consultation paper propose that there should be a rigged Electoral Commission: the position on campaign expenses is also being rigged. For the Scottish parliamentary elections, each political party was able to spend £1.5 million. The consultation paper proposes that the sum should be reduced to £250,000 per party. I wonder if that is because there is one party in favour of breaking up Britain and at least three against, and this is an attempt to limit their ability to put the argument. So we have a rigged question, a rigged role for the regulator and rigged expenses. On top of that, there is the suggestion that there should be a rigged franchise. I dwell on this at length to emphasise how important it is that we ensure in this Bill that we have a proper process in place, so that at the end of the day, however people vote in Scotland on breaking up Britain—yes or no—no one can say that it was not fair and the result was not reached in a proper manner. It really is extraordinary. Certainly when I was Secretary of State I was conscious that I was a Conservative—in many ways I felt that I was in opposition all the time I was in the Government—but I was also conscious that, as Secretary of State, I had a wider duty. On looking at this consultation paper, I am afraid to say that the First Minister has betrayed the trust which has been put in him as First Minister, and he appears to be putting his party’s interest before his country’s interest while posing as a champion of national interest. One other point that we have to discuss, which relates to legislative consent, is the whole question of so-called devo-max. The consultation paper suggests that there could be a second question on that. Whatever your views on this, and I am not a fan, it would undoubtedly change the nature not just of how business is treated in Scotland but of how business is treated here. In effect it would create an English Parliament and a federal parliament. That is a matter for the United Kingdom as a whole, and if we are to have a referendum on devo-max, whatever it is and however it is defined, it is something for a referendum for the whole of the United Kingdom. Therefore to suggest that a question on devo-max should be added to a referendum on independence is again a deliberate attempt to rig the thing in order to split those who are opposed to breaking up Britain. Once more, I think that that is the purpose. I turn now to the second part of my amendment, which suggests that we should not continue with this Committee stage until the Scottish Parliament has passed a further legislative consent Motion in respect of the Bill. I am not sure whether noble Lords have had an opportunity to look at the report of the committee of the Scottish Parliament which considered the issue of legislative consent and reported on it just before Christmas. If the First Minister is so concerned about devo-max, why has the Scottish Parliament not even discussed the report of that committee? The committee concluded: "““On the basis of all of the evidence that we have heard, the responses from the UK Government to the amendments suggested by our predecessor and by others in this new Parliamentary session, the Committee, therefore is unable to recommend that the Parliament approve a Legislative Consent Motion (LCM) on the Scotland Bill unless it is amended in line with the Committee’s conclusions and recommendations””." The committee says that it should not give legislative consent to this Bill unless its conclusions and recommendations have been agreed. The First Minister, who says that he is concerned about devo-max, has not even debated those proposals. So we do not know what the Scottish Parliament thinks, but we do know what the committee thinks. There are 45 recommendations which are conditional on approval, according to a committee dominated by the Scottish nationalists. Perhaps I may tell noble Lords what the last one is. Recommendation 45 states: "““We recommend that the Bill be amended to provide full fiscal autonomy for the Scottish Parliament and enable the devolution of welfare and benefits””." The second to last recommendation, number 44, states: "““The Committee considers that, should the UK Government proceed with the current financial provisions within the Bill, it would be unacceptable for these to be enacted without express ""agreement of the Scottish Parliament. Therefore, the Committee recommends that the Scotland Bill be amended to include a mechanism for joint approval””." The fourth to last recommendation, number 42, states: "““The Committee recommends that the UK Government only proceed with the Scotland Bill if it has secured the clear legislative consent of the Scottish Parliament and met any conditions within that legislative consent motion””." My question to my noble and learned friend is this. What on earth are we doing discussing this Bill at all if the Scottish Parliament cannot even be bothered to decide whether that is its position? And if that is its position, what are the Government going to do? The Prime Minister has announced that he has a respect agenda for Scotland. Would it be respectful to proceed with this Bill if the Scottish Parliament takes the view that we should not proceed with it? I ask this simply as a humble seeker after truth. I should say to my noble and learned friend that I am not going to read out all 45 recommendations, tempted as I am, but I have to say that if the Scottish Parliament is not going to debate them, surely we should not be debating them, or surely we should have answers from the Minister as to the Government’s attitude. Perhaps we could have a debate in the Moses Room, although it would be rather paradoxical if the unelected House of Lords—as the Leader of the Scottish National Party, the First Minister, Alex Salmond, insists on calling us—actually got round to debating a committee report that was dominated by his own party in the Moses Room.