Education Bill

My Lords, I know that my noble friend Lord Phillips is always helpful, as the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, said, because I benefited from his advice when I stumbled into this House last year on the Academies Bill. I was grateful for his help and advice on that, as I am sure I will be on this Bill. I know that my noble friend is always helpful. The final point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Hughes of Stretford, implied that the Government care less about children than they do about teachers. She did not put it in those words but there was that sense in the way in which she described the mindset of wanting to think about teachers before thinking about children. I am sure that the noble Baroness accepts that in a whole range of other ways the Government are demonstrating their commitment to thinking about children. But we certainly want to make sure that the interests of teachers are taken fully into account and that, in making sure that absolutely the right balance is struck between the interests of the children and the interests of the teachers, the interests of the teachers weigh properly in the balance. That lies behind a whole range of measures we are taking where the Government feel that there are ways that one can demonstrate that support to teachers. This group of amendments and our very good debate have echoes of the previous debate. My noble friend Lady Walmsley rightly makes the point about trying to strike a balance. We have tried to draft Clause 13 so that there is clarity about when reporting restrictions commence and when they are lifted. We are keen to try to keep that. The provisions are about protecting teachers, but I understand that there may be cases where there should be balance with other matters in the public interest and the courts will be required to strike that balance when considering dispensing with these restrictions. We have had a fair discussion about Amendment 73HB and the suggestion that under the clause as drafted it looks as though the teacher’s welfare is represented as the overriding consideration. It is true that the provision requires the court explicitly to have regard to the likely effect of publication on the teacher. The interests of other parties will also be taken into consideration by the court when considering what is in the interests of justice. But I take the point made by the noble Baronesses, Lady Howarth and Lady Hughes, my noble friend Lord Phillips and others. I will try to rattle through some responses to some of his amendments because I hope that we can allay some of his concerns. But, clearly, with a couple of them, I should like to sit down with him and make sure that we have got the balance right in the drafting to make sure that we do not inadvertently open up some of the concerns that he raises. My noble friend Lord Black raised the question of a public interest defence being added to the provisions. We think that that point is protected by the provision allowing the reporting restrictions to be lifted by the court in appropriate circumstances. They could include circumstances in which the information was to be published by others. We think that the process of applying to the court for reporting restrictions to be lifted provides a proportionate mechanism for taking into account the interests of the individual, maintaining their privacy in the face of what may be false or malicious allegations. My noble friend Lord Lucas suggested that he could not envisage many situations in which a teacher would suffer loss through having been written about in the newspapers. Indeed, he did not think that there would be much interest in the newspapers writing about some unknown teacher. I can think of some four-lettered public schools for which I have worked in the past where anything to do with those schools, including the teachers, is of great interest to the more sensationalist end of the press, although obviously not that represented by my noble friend Lord Black. There have been many repeated stories about teachers in a number of those institutions. We believe that allowing a public interest defence would mean that potential recourse for those teachers would be left too late. My noble friend Lord Phillips suggested that we should add to the circumstances that would trigger the lifting of reporting restrictions. He particularly suggested that the resignation or dismissal of a teacher, the initiation of libel proceedings or an employment tribunal relating to the allegation should cause the reporting restrictions to lift automatically. I understand his point following our debate about resignation being used as a way of not dealing with the issue—in effect, an admission of guilt without the admission of guilt being given. I shall reflect on those points, but the Government’s position is that the restriction should lift automatically only if it has been independently decided by the police or the regulator that there is a case to answer. If the police decide not to press charges, and the Secretary of State, as the regulator, decides that there is no case to answer, we think it is right that reporting restrictions should continue to be in place. One of the amendments spoken to by my noble friend, concerning a point also raised by my noble friend Lord Black, relates to an individual effectively deciding to waive their right to anonymity and publicly defend themselves. I am sympathetic to the view of my noble friend Lord Phillips that restrictions should lift to enable others to enter the public debate. We have made provision for the written consent of the individual to publication to be a defence against breach of the restrictions, and that may also deal with some of the concerns raised by my noble friend Lord Black. As part of the conversation that I shall have with my noble friend, that is one of the issues that I should like to explore with him. In Amendment 73HJ, my noble friend seeks to make sure that provisions do not deter victims of criminal offences from complaining about a teacher’s conduct to the proper authorities, such as the school, local authority or police, or to alert others who may be affected. That point was also raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Howarth. I hope that I can provide some reassurance. The provisions will not criminalise private conversations of that sort; nor will they prevent the police and others carrying out their investigations. Part of the thinking to which my noble friend referred concerned ensuring that parents or others are able to inform the school community of allegations and warn others if they feel that a teacher presents a risk to children. I understand that but, again, I can think of instances in which a well-meaning individual has acted inappropriately on what they believe to be real concerns, which later prove to be unfounded. Another example is that sometimes people within a school—either parents or other members of staff—get excited about an issue and launch a campaign. It is our view that once allegations have been reported through the proper channels to the police, the local authority and the school, it is for those authorities to investigate and establish if the allegations can be substantiated, and in the mean time to take proper precautions to safeguard the interests of the children. My noble friend tabled a couple of more technical amendments. Amendment 73L relates to an allegation of a relevant criminal offence. That is made clear earlier in the clause, so I am not sure that the change is necessary—again, we can discuss that. Amendment 73HC concerns the provision in the clause for appeal against a decision made by a magistrate in relation to an application for reporting restrictions to be lifted in the interests of justice. The amendment relates to someone who was not a party to the original proceedings and wishes to appeal. We think that their application for leave to appeal should be decided by the Crown Court. Those are my responses. I understand half of the spirit in which my noble friend tabled his amendments; I know that he is about to introduce a clause stand part debate, which suggests that there is another half of the spirit in which the amendments were tabled. I am grateful to him and would be glad to explore these matters further with him. In the mean time, I ask him to withdraw the amendment.