Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill

I think that that was indeed the intention, but ““reasonable force”” is not a beautifully defined phrase and it is tough to define it. It is particularly tough for people who are not experienced to work out what is and what is not ““reasonable force””, particularly in a situation that may well be inflamed. I would not want to see council officials having to make those tough judgment calls. That brings to me to the comments made in Committee by my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh West (Mike Crockart), who used to be a police officer and policed public order situations. He made the point that it is hard enough as a police officer to deal with such situations during public order protests. Some people will resist and some will be reluctant to accept authority, and that is in the context of the specific training received by the police, which would realistically not be available to council officials. Bringing police into such a situation, if it escalates, is relatively easy. We are talking about an area that the police can get to pretty quickly if requested—I do not think we are short of police officers around Parliament. Bringing the police in would also comply with other situations. For example, bailiffs will often have the police standing by; they hope not to use them, but they are available if necessary. The power for council officials and others to take such action was, to me, the single worst item in this part of the Bill and I am therefore delighted that after a number of discussions the Minister and the Government propose to get rid of it. I thank the Minister for his work and for accepting the points that were made. We are not yet in the position I would like to reach, and I hope that there will be opportunities in the other place to discuss the next level up and whether those council officials should make judgments about property confiscation. I am relatively relaxed, within the context of the framework, with the idea that council officials should be able to give a direction, because non-trained officers are often allowed to do that. Confiscation powers give me a little more pause for thought, however, and I hope that the Minister will consider them. I hope that he will also reflect on our discussions in Committee and elsewhere about the interplay of various other aspects of the situation. A direction can be given lasting for 90 days, it can be given orally and it can be given by one of the officials. I understand the reason for each part—for example, I understand why an oral direction would be needed for a large crowd—and that is why I do not think that the amendments dealing with senior police officers will work. If there were a large number of people, it would be odd to make one police officer go round individually to each one. There need to be some constraints. A 90-day period under an oral direction is very hard on the person subjected to it, so there should be a written record if at all possible. I hope that the Minister will reflect on that and give us some assurances that such a provision will be made in the legislation, expressed in his comments or contained in regulations.