Energy Bill [HL]

My Lords, this has been a very interesting debate and I thank all noble Lords from all parts of the Committee who have taken part in the debate. Like the noble Lord, Lord O’Neill, I thought the three paragraphs in the document on the energy company obligation clearly did not go any way towards giving the Committee the kind of information that we would customarily expect to see in something like draft statutory instruments. I did note that when the Minister responded, the one thing he did not do was undertake to give the Committee or the House any further information when the Bill returns to the Chamber. I regret that, and I suspect that it may mean that we will return to this issue. I got the impression that the Minister was linking the time taken in the Chamber on amendments with the time taken on this Committee. I am conscious that we have not achieved the target that the Minister wished to achieve today; nevertheless, I do not think that any of our debates has in any sense been of an unnecessarily excessive length. I believe that we have raised genuine points. The Minister suggested that the energy company obligation might be met from profits. I remind him that his department’s impact assessment says that, "““there is a potential for significant costs to suppliers in meeting the obligation which ultimately we””—" that is, his department— "““expect to be borne by consumers””." That is why there are important issues that need to be teased out. What is this obligation? Which people will it affect? How much is it going to cost, and how is it going to flow through the system into consumer prices? There is a real problem that it may not alleviate fuel poverty if it just goes round the houses and comes back in the form of bills. We need all those details. My main reason for tabling my opposition to the clause concerns parliamentary scrutiny; it is not to challenge any part of the energy company obligation. The Minister said that we have to recognise what the Government have to do. Governance is about trying to get things done, and there is a framework Bill in order to allow the Executive to do what it wants. I am sorry, but the reason why we have legislation is to ensure that there are proper checks and balances against the Executive doing exactly what it wants. That is why we have Parliament and, in particular, it is why we have your Lordships’ House, which acts as a revising Chamber. It is not about stopping the Government doing what they want; it is about making sure that there are the right checks and balances in the process. This is what I feel most strongly about in connection with this part of the Bill. We are letting the Executive do what it wants but with insufficient scrutiny by either House. I hope that the Minister will reflect on this debate as we move through this Committee stage and before we reach Report. It is important that your Lordships’ House has further and better particulars as an aid to understanding how Chapter 4 of Part 1 of the Bill will be used, and as an aid to your Lordships’ House in determining whether it is content with the formulation of the powers in the Bill or whether other safeguards are needed in the Bill. That is the role of your Lordships’ House and I hope that the Minister will facilitate the House in carrying out its role. Clause 61 agreed. Clause 62 : Promotion of reductions in carbon emissions: electricity generators, distributors and suppliers Clause 62 : Promotion of reductions in carbon emissions: electricity generators, distributors and suppliers Amendment 29B not moved. Clause 62 agreed. Clause 63 : Promotion of reductions in home-heating costs: gas transporters and suppliers Clause 63 : Promotion of reductions in home-heating costs: gas transporters and suppliers Debate on whether Clause 63 should stand part of the Bill.