Energy Bill [HL]

I am grateful to the Minister both for his response and for his good wishes to my noble friend Lady Smith, which I will convey to her; we anticipate that she will be back for the next session of the Committee. I will bear in mind his good wishes to me. He shares with me an interest in cricket and, as long as our cricket side is doing well internationally, I am sure that my heart will still continue to beat strongly. That ought to take us through this Committee in any case. On the questions that have been raised in the debate, I am grateful to all noble Lords who have participated, particularly the noble Lord, Lord Oxburgh, for his supportive comments. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Jenkin, that, if a household were to get the full list of potential measures as a result of this amendment, it might chill the blood somewhat. People would be overwhelmed by the prospect of the enormous amount of expenditure that could be involved if they followed a range of options. Of course, I wanted to emphasise—and perhaps I did not make it explicit enough in my breathless opening remarks—that we are talking about specific proposals in regard to the property, so that the customer would be looking only at a range that was relevant to what he might expend on the property. I understand the noble Lord’s more general points, although I still subscribe to the opening statement that I made in support of this amendment. We need to engage in a major exercise in effective communication in order to make this scheme work. Ultimately, the householder will recognise that costs are involved and there will be some anxiety and scepticism. I emphasise that it should be made clear to the householder what is within the Green Deal and therefore within the framework of the scheme. If there are other proposals that might improve the property but are not within the scheme, that should be clear so that there would not be confusion. I listened carefully to what the Minister said about the ability of the consumer to challenge the method if the method proved to be wrong. We are dealing with specialisms and technical skills. I do not know about other noble Lords but I am a dummy in the hands of quite a number of specialists who come to my home and seek to advise me on the improvements that I could effect at absolutely minimal cost and at huge benefit to me and probably the wider community if I listened to the spiel long enough. At times, such presentations are difficult to analyse effectively and to refute where they need to be refuted. This will not alter the fact that consumers will have a degree of scepticism. I also want to emphasise that we are not suggesting at any stage that the assessor or the installer is doing the choosing. The responsibility, obligation and right rest with the property owner who is having the improvements. That is central to our amendment. I am not quite sure whether the Minister responded to the contribution made by the noble Lord, Lord Oxburgh, as well as I would have hoped. I was feeling my way to that position and the noble Lord expressed it more precisely. My noble friend Lord O’Neill, who is not in his place, also contributed on this. We need to be clear. I understand the issues with regard to the code of practice but we also know the vagueness and generalities of the code of the practice. The noble Lord expressed anxieties about how this would impact on the consumer, as did my noble friend Lord Whitty in his contribution. Nevertheless, the purpose of Committee stage is to identify areas of uncertainty, which the Minister will have recognised. I am sure that some of these questions will re-emerge in our debates. At the moment, I am happy to withdraw the amendment. Amendment 10A withdrawn. Amendment 11 not moved. Clause 4 agreed. Amendment 12 Moved by