Energy Bill [HL]

Let me take that as a base from which to throw in my next suggestion. That is that these numbers are baffling to most people. I was in the middle of saying that there are three possible rationales for a 30 per cent price increase. One of them on the face of it has nothing to do with the £110 billion; it is to do with restricting consumption in line with the climate change targets. However, there is no ownership by the British people in the pubs or the HGVs that that is the price that they are to pay. I had a debate with my noble friend Lord Rooker when the Climate Change Bill was going through three years ago. I had tabled an amendment that there be introduced a carbon tax industrial and consumer impact forum. Its role would have been to look at, first, the impact of increases in carbon taxes or other such taxes; secondly, the changes in relative costs between different sectors of the economy; and, thirdly, the role of the European globalisation adjustment fund, because those are big industrial structural adjustments. I said that the forum should include representatives from HMG, employers, trade unions and consumer organisations—I subsumed the Met Office and others in HMG. It would produce a report each budgetary period on the impact of all the things I mentioned. Let me deal with one in particular, which was the real purpose of my amendment. If we are to get ownership of price increases, we need two things. One is a forum where representatives of consumers, trade unions and everyone else sit around the table looking at the energy framework. The second is that we need a degree of hypothecation of the money coming in. I think that the Treasury has stuck its toe into the water for the first time on hypothecation—just as my noble friend Lord Prescott did with the arguments about congestion charging. All the money raised from the Rolls-Royce going along Piccadilly is going to buses. People might start to understand if there were what I might call a hypothetical hypothecation, by which I mean that it would not be separate from the Budget Statement but there must be an understanding of who is paying what, where the money is coming from and why. The third possible rationale for a 30 per cent price increase is to do with paying for things such as the Green Deal. None of these things come without a price tag attached. When the House authorities consider what amendments are allowable on the Bill—my noble friend Lady Smith of Basildon will no doubt give me a steer on this—we need to test what amendments we can table to the Bill. Since the Bill has been published, we have had all these announcements of huge importance right in the territory of the Bill. We must look at that. At minute 10, I shall make two final points. One is to say that, given the regressive nature of price increases on something as basic as electricity, there will be great social unrest unless we do some redistribution. There will, of course, be squeals from big industry about its competitive position, but we need a frank debate. We cannot just look separately at an argument about winter fuel payments. These are huge, important questions, and we need a holistic narrative which would include homes. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Best, about blocks of flats which form a not-inconsiderable part of big cities such as London. I have been chairman of my residents’ association for a number of years. We have 99 year leases like many people. If you want to say to an individual, ““Do this to your ceiling””, ““Do this to your loft””, ““Do this to your walls””, or ““Do this to your floors””, the managing agent will say, ““No you can’t play around with the building like that””. So even if the residents’ association wants to do something, the managing agent, on behalf of the ground landlord, can say, ““I don’t agree””. There is a prima facie question along the lines posed by the noble Lord, Lord Best, and one or two others. I take this opportunity to say that I am glad that the noble Lord, Lord Lawson, put in his usual plea for us not to rely on base load from wind power. It is not a joke any more. It is a fantasy, and we ought to recognise that. I also take this opportunity to congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, with whom I almost always try to agree. However, on this occasion, her worry about what she calls the consumer is the same, essentially, as what you might call the social policy dimension as a whole. Again, we just have to test what amendments are going to be allowed in the course of the Committee stage on this Bill.