Terrorism Act 2006 (Disapplication of Section 25) Order 2010

My Lords, the extension of 14 days to 28 started as a temporary measure and remains temporary; we need to remember that. However, the extension even to 14 days in the parent legislation was an extension from the original four. Fourteen days is exceptional in every sense of the word and 28 days more so. The noble Lord, Lord Newton, referred to drift. I entirely agree with him. It is important that renewal does not become routine and that the reasons for renewal are not merely a parroting of what has gone before. The measures taken over the past few years have too often been knee-jerk. This occasion is different. Were it not so, I would have encouraged colleagues to vote against the order. Liberal Democrats have consistently opposed 28 days. It may be a disadvantage to be tidy-minded, but I see the logic of not pre-empting the review of counterterrorism powers—not just the headline powers of control orders, detention without charge, deportation with assurances and so on, but how the powers relate to one another and all the underlying measures and mechanisms that are available or that might be made available. These were listed in your Lordships’ House when the Minister announced the review. In all this, I stress the role of the judiciary in allowing an extension of detention without charge and in post-charge interviews. It would be helpful if the Minister could tell us about the bringing into force of, I think, Section 22 of the 2008 legislation. Reference has been made to the mechanisms available in other jurisdictions. I hope that the review that will come out of the Home Office in due course will explain the differences between the different jurisdictions. I entirely take the point made by the noble Lord, Lord West, that one cannot look at the period of detention without charge in isolation from all the other mechanisms used by the different jurisdictions, as these matters are not easily transferable. However, for those of us who are concerned with this whole area, it would be helpful to have the distinctions spelled out so that we are clear about them. I readily acknowledge that there is a fault-line in my logic in that I am not prepared to keep a wholly open mind until I see the outcome of the review. I am not prepared to cross that fault-line. Liberal Democrat policy is to reduce the time limit to 14 days. In six months or less, I know that I will find myself saying that I am not prepared to settle for—I was going to say ““less”” but in terms of days it is ““more””. The Merits of Statutory Instruments Committee, of which I am a member, asked the Home Office for specific evidence showing that the order is necessary. The Home Office gave us a summary of the state of one investigation 14 days after arrest. It suggested the scale of the investigation that was required in that case, which we were told was typical. However, I wonder whether it would have been very different had we been discussing 21 days or, indeed, 42. I have no idea whether investigators succumb to the temptation to allow work to expand to fill the time available, as is the case with almost everyone else in every other context. The noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, referred to the figures relating to releases, charges and so on for those detained for 14 days and more. She referred to the single instance where I understand there was a successful conviction for terrorism offences following 28 days’ pre-charge detention and where most of the admissible evidence was available to the police at the time of the arrest. I do not want to be too glib: the suspected or potential offences are serious, but so, too, is detention without knowing the charges against you and so not having the opportunity to answer allegations. I hope that access to information and secret evidence used by the police and prosecutors will also be part of the Home Office review. Like others, I am extremely grateful for the briefings from Justice, Liberty and Amnesty International. Of course, those briefings are the tip of the iceberg, but the work that they do is extremely valuable. They comment on worldwide monitoring, which shows that a prolonged period of pre-charge detention creates a climate for abusive practices that tend to prompt detainees to make involuntary statements. They refer to the effect on family life, work and other relationships, the stigma to which the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, referred, and the disproportionate and discriminatory impact on members of certain communities, with the consequent negative effect on policing and intelligence-gathering. When the time limit was last renewed, the Minister, who was then speaking for the Opposition, explained that she did not feel that she could vote for or support a change with potential implications for security on the basis of the then incomplete debate. She said: "““Lest the Government conclude that this is therefore the way to obtain renewal in future—by keeping the House in the dark and by ignoring the numerous objections to obnoxious features of the current legal regime—let me give fair warning that on these Benches we shall not be so complaisant on future occasions. The Government must not think that they can take Parliament for granted””.—[Official Report, 23/6/09; col.1542.]" Quite so. The Home Secretary said last week in the Commons: "““I am aware that in asking many hon. Friends and hon. Members to vote for this temporary six-month measure today, I am asking them to take a deep breath and vote for a measure that ""they do not very much like. But I can assure them that if they support this order, I will work with hon. Members on both sides of the House to find a solution that reduces the limit for pre-charge detention, but gives the police the powers they need to keep us all safe from those who would bring devastation to our country””.—[Official Report, Commons, 14/7/10; cols. 1008-09.]" I very much welcome those comments from the Home Secretary, her willingness to work on a cross-party basis—this should not be a partisan issue—and her clear indication that, for her, the default is 14 not 28 days. We await the counterterrorism review with considerable interest, so I, too, am prepared not just to take a deep breath but to hold my nose and not to oppose the order today.