Crime and Security Bill

My Lords, I am sure that I have the agreement of the House when I say that all of us wish to see a reduction in gang violence and gang-related violence, which makes the daily life of so many people such a misery. The police need to be freed up and given powers to deal immediately and effectively with gang incidents, which increasingly blight our towns and cities. Most of the people who attend this House do not have to live in parts of towns where this occurs, but it certainly causes misery for those where it does. It is a sad fact that a significant number of gang members are under the age of 18. This is a real problem. I certainly have sympathy with those who do not wish to see us go down the road of criminalising children, but some young people do very wicked things. These clauses give sanctions to civil courts, including youth custody—just mentioned by the noble and learned Lord—which were previously reserved for youth courts. The youth justice system should not be bypassed, but we also take the view that it is increasingly insufficient. Today we shall not oppose these provisions because the Minister previously gave an assurance that they will be used only as a measure of last resort. We obviously hope that that undertaking will be stuck to, and, rather like the noble and learned Lord who referred to the increasing practice of using the civil courts as a route through which criminal penalties can be imposed, we would, if given the opportunity in government, wish to scrutinise this. We see it becoming a form of hybrid law that is not known to this country and is not desirable. We would wish to do something about that. I understand that the Government also intend to test the provisions through pilot schemes. This is an important idea. The results need to be reported to Parliament before there is a wider rollout. If these pilots are not successful, it follows that the provisions should not be implemented countrywide. It is on that basis that we are willing to support the measures today.