Northern Ireland Act 1998 (Devolution of Policing and Justice Functions) Order 2010

My Lords, I support the three orders that have been laid before your Lordships’ House and so ably moved by the noble Baroness, Lady Royall of Blaisdon, earlier in our proceedings. I say to my noble friend Lord Maginnis that it is now 25 years since I first visited him in his constituency in Fermanagh and South Tyrone when I was a spokesman in another place. I had huge admiration for him then which continues to this day. The trenchant, no-nonsense fashion in which he speaks is not to be ignored in your Lordships’ House, and I agree with the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Eames: he represents an opinion that is held in the north of Ireland, and one to which we should listen with some care. For instance, he said that there is great disaffection with the Public Prosecution Service. The noble Lord, Lord Brennan, has supported that view and we should certainly take it into account. The noble Lord, Lord Maginnis, also said that justice delayed is justice denied. He was in fact quoting Mr Gladstone, who said precisely that. Maybe it is worth recalling that it was the same Mr Gladstone who, after the Home Rule Bill was defeated in your Lordships’ House more than a century ago, mused that the one and only conspicuous failure of our political genius had been the failure to achieve a political solution in Northern Ireland. Although recent events serve to remind us that there are still paramilitary forces in Northern Ireland which would like to destroy political progress, it will surely be said of these past 15 years that British and Irish politicians and civil servants at last deployed their considerable genius in trying to find a peaceful way out of the mire. Again, I agree with the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Eames, who said it is a historic day for Northern Ireland and we should rejoice in political achievement. Throughout the 1980s and 1990s I regularly spoke in another place on Northern Ireland issues. Indeed, my maiden speech in 1979 was made in the immediate aftermath of the tragic murder of Airey Neave in the precincts of the House by the INLA. I remarked that day that: ""The bullet can never replace the ballot in a free society".—[Official Report, Commons, 3/4/1979; col. 1222.]" Although the INLA has now renounced violence, it will take many more years for memories to heal. My maiden speech in your Lordships’ House in 1997 returned to the importance of finding a political strategy for ending decades of violence. I said that a way forward could never be based on anything which implied a victory for either side and suggested that: ""An end to this catalogue of violence remains the elusive prize which will reward the patience and perseverance of those constructively engaged in the present negotiations".—[Official Report, 22/10/1997; col.773.]" The orders before your Lordships’ House today will enable the completion of devolution in Northern Ireland through the transfer of policing and justice powers to Stormont, exactly as my noble friend Lord Kilclooney said in his remarks a few minutes ago. In turn, they give effect to the historic vote at Stormont on 9 March. That is a considerable tribute to the Prime Minister, the Taoiseach, the Secretary of State and Minister of State and their opposite numbers in Dublin, and most crucially to the First Minister and his colleagues in the Northern Ireland Assembly. Tribute should also be paid, as others have done, to Sir John Major, Mr Tony Blair, Albert Reynolds, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mayhew, who is in his seat today, and all those who have invested so heavily in creating this constructive way forward. This has not been an easy time for the right honourable Member for East Belfast, Mr Peter Robinson, the First Minister. We both entered the Commons 30 years ago, and I have watched with admiration as he has grappled with the complexities posed by a devolved power-sharing assembly. Speaking in yesterday's debate in another place, he said that, ""zero-sum politics—sectarian politics—drag Northern Ireland down and back. We must recognise that it is possible to find a way forward in Northern Ireland that is a win-win solution, and that it is possible to have agreements on how we move forward in Northern Ireland that attracts the support of both Nationalist and Unionists. The devolution of policing and justice is such an issue. For 100 years, Unionists' policy has been to have devolved powers over policing and justice".—[Official Report, Commons, 22/3/10; col. 70.]" He was also right to support the view of the honourable Member for Foyle, Mark Durkan, who spoke on behalf of the SDLP of not making the perfect the enemy of the good. He said that in Northern Ireland, as elsewhere: ""We cannot make perfection a precondition for progress".—[Official Report, Commons, 22/3/10; col. 54.]" I agree with that view and believe also that it builds constructively on the fine work undertaken by the noble Lord, Lord Trimble, his noble friend Lord Kilclooney, Mr John Hume and many others who have been involved in the process. Yesterday's vote made it a historic day in another place, because the debate there saw the swan songs of two significant figures in Northern Ireland's affairs. I will mention them briefly before concluding my remarks. The honourable Member for South Staffordshire, Sir Patrick Cormack, has played a remarkable role as chairman of the Northern Ireland Select Committee. I know that Members on all sides of your Lordships’ House who have followed these issues over the years will want to pay tribute to him for his patient and constructive role in bringing about this political achievement. I particularly want to mention the Reverend Ian Paisley, the Member of Parliament for North Antrim. He spoke yesterday in another place, and the noble Baroness, Lady Royall, said how moved she had been to hear his words. These were some of those words: ""The day has come when Northern Ireland must boldly face the simple facts. There are people in Northern Ireland who have diverse religious and political convictions, but they can live together as neighbours. When I was a boy, there was more neighbourliness than we have seen for many years. Something entered the hearts of the people that destroyed the reverence for neighbourliness and kindliness. The Ulster people are not a hard people: they are a loving and caring people. I am glad that there is no disturbance in the House today. We are meeting here in calm and peace, because that calm and peace is slowly but surely being established in Northern Ireland. We are making progress in the right direction".—[Official Report, Commons, 22/3/10; col. 67.]" I pay tribute to the right honourable Member. I always believed that he could become the catalyst for change in Northern Ireland. We offer him and the noble Baroness, Lady Paisley, who is in her seat today, our good wishes for their future. Devolution brings with it many opportunities and laurels. The £800 million of extra resources have been mentioned. All but £26 million—2 per cent—of the Northern Ireland Office's current baseline budget will transfer to the Northern Ireland Executive, as will the entire Northern Ireland Court Service baseline budget. That is a huge responsibility, as the noble Lord, Lord Maginnis, said, but it is also a huge opportunity. Secondly, there will be a more effective and integrated Executive. Thirdly, there will be consolidation of the political infrastructure of Northern Ireland. Fourthly, a message will be sent to dissident elements that progress is made via dialogue and political action, not by murdering police officers or killing your neighbours. The legacy of the past 40 years in Northern Ireland is almost 3,000 unsolved murders. The families of the victims of those terrible atrocities will want to hear an assurance that the passing of these orders will underline, and not in any way minimise, the importance of ensuring that those responsible are held to account. I welcome the renunciation of violence that so many have made, but they must also understand that justice is not a process by which the past is forgotten. I have never subscribed to the view that we should simply forgive and forget. No one can forgive on behalf of others. It is better to forgive and remember, for if we too easily forget what has gone before, the sacrifices and the gains will be placed in jeopardy. I have some brief questions for the Minister. First, how will these orders affect the Policing Board's relationship with the chief constable and the Department of Justice? Is she confident that the impartiality and operational independence of the chief constable will not be compromised? That point was touched on by the noble Lord, Lord Glentoran. Secondly, can the Minister tell us what progress is being made on the draft Bill on parades and how will the consultation process work? Thirdly, is there a date for the publication of the Saville inquiry's report? What provision will be made in your Lordships’ House to debate its findings? My fourth point concerns the intelligence agencies and was touched on by the noble Lord, Lord Rogan. Mr Mark Durkan raised what he called the, ""dangerous twilight zone that exists in relation to the interface between national security, the regional policing interest and the full accountability of devolution".—[Official Report, Commons, 22/3/10; col. 52.]" Can the Minister describe what role Parliament will have in these matters? Will Northern Ireland Members of your Lordships’ House be offered seats on Parliament's Intelligence and Security Committee? Fifthly and finally, I turn to the sunset clause. The Prime Minister has said that these orders represent an end to decades of strife. Would it not have been better, therefore, to dispense with a sunset clause—to be applied in May 2012—and which could open up these wounds all over again? These orders are not perfect, but they are a victory for common sense. In a period of political turbulence, Northern Ireland needs a sense of stability. At a time when the public have a low view of politicians, it is good to be reminded of what coherent and dedicated political engagement can achieve. Other troubled parts of the world regularly look to Northern Ireland for encouragement as they seek to resolve their difficulties and conflicts. I hope that, as the years pass, the wonderful people of Northern Ireland will be able to show us how they used their genius to solve what had eluded us for so long.