Bribery Bill [Lords]

Indeed I have. Attitudes have changed over the decade or longer in which I have taken an interest in the issue. Ten years ago, quite a number of businesses shrugged their shoulders and said that the practice was unpleasant and costly but necessary if they wanted to do business in certain markets, but we are now in a situation in which all the main business organisations are absolutely clear that the United Kingdom, like other developed western economies, needs to take a stand against bribery. When I introduced my ten-minute Bill 12 years ago, I quoted Adair Turner, the then director general of the CBI, who had said:""Corruption's become a big issue because it just costs business so much these days."" He was in the vanguard, as many people in the business community at that time did not share his view that something had to be done about the problem. However, attitudes have changed, because in countries with endemic corruption, the Mr. Five Per Cent. became the Mr. Ten Per Cent., and then the Mr. Twenty Per Cent. and the Mr. Twenty-five Per Cent. It became quite impossible to do business in such circumstances. I agreed with the hon. Gentleman's important point that if we in the UK sign up to high standards in this area, our main competitors need to do the same. However, as the hon. and learned Member for Beaconsfield (Mr. Grieve) said, compared with many countries, we appear to be behind the pack rather than in the lead. The United States introduced the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act some 30 years ago under the Carter Administration. An American business man is prosecuted once or twice a year—it is not a vendetta in any sense—which keeps the issue in the mind of the American public. International bribery is just not acceptable in US business. France introduced legislation to make itself fully compliant with the OECD convention some years ago, and it has a longer track record of successfully prosecuting such offences than the United Kingdom. It is important that we ensure that all major western economies and OECD countries comply, but we would be in a stronger position to achieve that if we were a country with the best kind of such legislation and a strong record of applying it and enforcing it through the courts, when necessary. When I introduced my ten-minute Bill, I said that there was a comfortable but completely fictitious belief that bribery was not a serious problem in the United Kingdom but was something that affected developing countries such as Nigeria, Pakistan or Zaire, as the Democratic Republic of the Congo used to be called—I know that the hon. Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham (Daniel Kawczynski) has worked in such countries as a businessman. However, the problem is that it takes two to tango, and if a corrupt public official in a developing country is demanding a bribe before signing a contract, there must be a bribe-giver, and that person often acts on behalf of a western corporation seeking to sell in that foreign market. When I introduced my Bill 12 years ago, the hon. Member for Lichfield (Michael Fabricant) spoke against it, as he was entitled to do under the ten-minute rule. He called it "fundamentally naive" and made the point, which has been echoed in today's debate, that if tough legislation is adopted in the United Kingdom but not in other countries, UK businesses will be put at a competitive disadvantage. However, we have discussed that issue, and it is now time for the UK to catch up while continuing to be vigilant so that we ensure that other countries also comply.