Equality Bill

My Lords, I rise to make a brief intervention. Over the weekend, I listened to the warning given to this House that today there would be a big issue that should merit our attention. The House is aware that, over the years, in religious matters, I have not played a part—never mind a major part. However, I was moved to reflect on this situation. Many people in this House—and some make a declaration of it—are Christians, with beliefs and doctrines, and a life encompassed by a religious phrase. I confess that, at my age, I have been open to persuasion from a great many people and a great many causes but have never been moved to declare myself a Christian with a capital C. When I look at what Christianity is—its precepts and concepts—I subscribe to them. When I was younger, I was a Sunday-school teacher, which I enjoyed. When I joined the Royal Marines in 1943 and the man in charge said, "I now need to take down your religion," I said that the only religion I could remember is the Congregational Church and that I was a member of the Boys’ Brigade. He said, "Right. You’re an OD." I asked, "What’s an OD?". An "OD" stood for "other denominations". I have gone through life not moved as obviously as so many people here, and in other places, are by these issues. When a Bill appears, people can see that there is an aspect to it that needs to be varied, words changed. I came to the Equality Bill not moved by a religious fervour, but moved by the kind of things that most people understand by a lack of equality in gender, economics and many other ways. What the Government have been doing, defending and attacked for doing is listening to what has been said. It remains for the House to decide whether they are right or wrong. In a few minutes time we will go through the Lobbies. I cannot recall that people in my former seat of Edmonton talk of little else but proportionality or things like that. Quite frankly, most ordinary people are not moved by the issues that are taking centre stage here. An hour ago, the Government and the Leader of the House were trying to get the wording as right as possible. Amendment 98 states, ""leave out ‘application is a proportionate means of complying’ and insert ‘requirement is applied so as to comply’"." Noble Lords might be able to understand the tautology there, but it is rather difficult for someone like me to do so. Amendment 99 states, ""leave out ‘application is a proportionate means of avoiding conflict’ and insert ‘requirement is applied so as to avoid conflicting’"." We have preconceived ideas of where we stand in the political spectrum, but I believe that the Government are trying to give the House its best shot to deal with inequalities. Reference has been made by more than one noble Lord to the briefs that they have received. I have not received those briefs, but I received briefing from the Humanist Association and other bodies. I respect those bodies and I read the briefing. The issue on which I received more representations than any other was Section 28. I received more than 500 letters on that. Out of courtesy I replied to all of them and said that I would listen to the debate and take note. I cannot believe that the issue we are discussing will arouse as much passion as Section 28. That issue, which was so big and aroused such strong feelings, was accepted and has faded, and the Government have done their best to move on. As regards religious tolerance, I detect that certain words indicate that the Church of England and religious bodies and faiths feel that they are being attacked, undermined or not listened to. I do not speak for the Minister or for the Government, but, frankly, that notion is laughable and ludicrous. The Government are trying to do what they believe is right and are listening very carefully. The Minister will point out that the last thing this Government want is another fight with somebody else; they have enough on their plate and do not want any more. The Government deserve support for their attitude to the Bill, and will get mine.