Equality Bill

My Lords, this has not just been an interesting and wide-ranging debate, in many ways it has been a celebration of equality. As my noble friend Lord Alli said, we have come on an extraordinary journey together over the last few years. My noble friend Lady Turner and others reminded us not to overlook how far we have come—we should be proud not only of our achievements, but of those of our forefathers and foremothers. Concerns have been expressed that the Bill nurtures the culture of individualism. I, too, would be concerned if that were the case, but it is not. The Bill is about the right to be different and the right to be equal. It is about enabling individuals to fulfil their potential as members of their communities and of wider society, a society that will be healthier in economic and social terms as a consequence of the Bill, a society that will be more socially just. I well remember the Social Justice Commission, so ably chaired by my noble friend Lord Borrie. Perhaps we are getting there in the end. It has taken some time, but we are getting there. The noble Baroness, Lady Miller of Hendon, rightly said that we need a culture change as well as legislative change. It is indeed good to have here back on her feet. The noble Baroness, Lady Warzi, mentioned the proposal made by my noble friend Lord Rooker about a certificate stating which Commons amendments had been debated. I share her enthusiasm for that proposal, but that is for the future, it is not for the present and the present Bill. Yes, we all want to address the root causes of equality, that is precisely what this Government have been striving to do over the last 12 years and we have achieved a lot. We have tax credits for children, we have enabled many pensioners to come out of poverty, we have got Sure Start, the minimum wage—I could go on—but there is so much more to be done. I recognise that, and the Bill will help not least with the socio-economic duty, which I believe will have a real impact, but to bridge the gap between rich and poor. I am grateful for the support from my noble friend Lady Kennedy of The Shaws. It is not a panacea, it is not a magic wand, but it will help. To the noble Baroness, Lady Young of Hornsey, I say that we are expecting the guidance to be published, or made available before Committee stage. I was expecting the views of noble Lords opposite on Clause 1, but I was disappointed to hear the views of the Liberal Democrat Benches, particularly as I understand that their colleagues in the Commons voted in favour of that. That is what I was informed earlier; forgive me if I am wrong. Many views have been expressed about the gender pay gap and I well understand the frustration expressed by my noble friend Lady Gould that 2013 seems distant, but we very much hope that before that date, companies will voluntarily publish gender pay gap information. I had an encouraging letter from the chair of the Equality and Human Rights Commission yesterday, in which he said, ""I can confirm that we are close to an acceptable solution relating to voluntary proposals that will be supported by the TUC, the CBI and other employer representatives"." I think that that is good news. I recognise that many among us favour mandatory equal pay audits and we will discuss this further in Committee, but no one should doubt our unswerving commitment to narrowing the pay gap. I must tell the noble Baroness, Lady Morris, who I know is passionate about these issues also, that it is not true that parts of the Bill are going to be dropped. The noble Baroness, Lady Warsi, asked whether the Human Rights Commission would publish the gender pay gap measures before Committee. As I mentioned, we think that we are getting towards some sort of agreement between the parties and we hope that the proposals will be published in January, but it is, of course up to the Commission to decide exactly when publication will take place. Many noble Lords, including the noble Lord, Lord Lester, the noble Baronesses, Lady Greengross and Lady Howe of Idlicote, and others, expressed concern that the Bill will not remove the default retirement age, which the 2006 age employment regulations permitted and which was the subject of an unsuccessful legal challenge. As noble Lords will know, the Government have responded to those concerns by bringing forward their planned review of the default retirement age. The review will take place next year. On 15 October, we announced that we are calling for evidence to be submitted by 1 February 2010 to inform the review. One issue that has been raised in submissions of evidence received so far is that it would be unfair for the default retirement age to be set at an age lower than the state pension age. Of course, changes to the state pension age are not envisaged to begin until 2026. However, I want to place on the record that, whatever the outcome of the review, the Government agree that it would not be tenable to have a situation where the default retirement age was lower than the state pension age. I come to Saga, which was mentioned by the noble Earl, Lord Ferrers, and my noble friend Lord Davies of Coity. Our position is clear: as my honourable friend stated in the other place, there will be a specific exception for age-related holidays, such as Saga, but it will not be in the Bill. It will be in regulations, and I will ensure that during the passage of the Bill, we set out in writing exactly what the regulations will provide. I assure all those who benefit from Saga holidays that they will be able to continue to enjoy them and that the exceptions will come into force at the same time as prohibitions in the Bill. Therefore, there is no question that people will not be covered.