Co-operative and Community Benefit Societies and Credit Unions Bill [HL]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to have the opportunity to take part in this debate. I begin, as have all other speakers, in congratulating my noble friend Lord Tomlinson on bringing his baby here today after the fully understandable hiccup which took place. As the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, said, it proved that the procedures and safeguards in existence are for a proper purpose and that, provided there is good will, a way around a problem will be found. The noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, played a major part in causing the matter to be stopped and reconsidered, which I appreciate. I cannot better the explanation of the Bill than that given by my noble friend Lord Tomlinson. It may be technical, but underlying its purposes are social objectives which we all enjoy. I enjoyed the reference made by the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, to his mother’s Co-op number. My mother’s Co-op number was 65539. In 1987, I was in the boardroom of Tesco when I was given the great honour of being the president of the Co-operative Congress, which is the biggest single honour that can be given. At that time, the headquarters of Tesco was in Cheshunt, near my patch of Enfield and Edmonton. The noble Lord, Lord MacLaurin, is a great friend of mine. He invited me to his boardroom, in a sense, to pay tribute to my contributions. He said, "Well, I think it’s not widely known but I owe a great deal to the Co-op and I can quote my Mum’s Co-op share number", which he proceeded to do. He said, "Not many here can say that", whereupon half the assembly of directors and chief officers recited their numbers. I have another story about numbers. In 1948, I was paying out the dividend in the Newcastle Co-op when a book was pushed through the grille to receive the dividend. I looked up and there was Jackie Milburn. He was a hero. He said, "What can I get on this book?". I looked at it and said, "I cannot pay you a penny". He asked why not. I said, "Because it is in your wife’s name. Here is a form. Get her to sign it. Come back and I will pay you". He came back the next day and asked, "How much can I get?". I said, "There is seven pounds and 17 shillings in the book. I can pay you seven pounds and 14 shillings because you must leave three shillings". He said, "Seven pounds and 14 shillings—that is a week’s wages", which it was. A week’s wages for a footballer was eight pounds in the season and six pounds out of season. He said, "Thank you very much, bonny lad. If I can help you, I will". As he walked away, I said, "Jackie, you and I know that one of these days Newcastle will get to the cup final". He said, "Yes". I said, "I would like to be able to write to you". He said, "You do that bonny lad, I will get you a ticket". In 1951, Newcastle United got to the final. I wrote a letter: "Dear Mr Milburn, you will remember that I paid out your wife’s dividend and I would like a ticket". I enclosed a postal order for three shillings, which was the price of a ticket to stand at Wembley. Three days later, I received an envelope with the Newcastle United logo on it. Inside was my ticket, my postal order and a compliments slip, which was simply signed, "From your Jackie". I give that illustration to demonstrate the roots of the co-operative idea in credit unions, consumer co-ops and many others. The Co-op is going through something of a renaissance and is doing very well. That is borne out of not only the efficiency of the movement but also the conditions in which we are. It is a great credit. This Bill will be known as the Tomlinson Bill. Malcolm Wicks is entitled to feel slightly aggrieved at the turn of events, but his Bill, which was produced by my noble friend Lord Tomlinson, was the product of consultation with the co-operative movement in all its forms. I pay tribute to the officers of the co-operative moment who were consulted and the officers of the Treasury who worked on this for a long time. In 1997, I became the chairman of the United Kingdom Co-operative Council. I took over from Lord Carter who had produced an all-embracing co-operative Bill, to become an Act. Over the years, because of time, it turned out not to be quite the appropriate vehicle. In the past few years, every now and again, a co-operative initiative is taken. My noble friend Lord Tomlinson referred to the Industrial and Provident Societies Act. I studied 1852, 1893 and 1960s co-operative law and administration. Periodically, there is a need for the legislation to be reviewed, so I warmly endorse what my noble friend has done. I will sit down soon in deference to the debate in the name of my noble friend Lord Morris, a matter on which a lot needs to be said and done. My noble friend, as we know, is not only a hero and champion of the disabled, he is indefatigable in pursuing his issues. His Bill is a matter of life of death. For many in this country, the Bill before us is not a matter of life and death, but when I started out people would say, "Well, in the Co-op, we never made a millionaire and never made a pauper". I do not think it has ever made a pauper, but in latter days it has made a few millionaires. I warmly congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Tomlinson, on the Bill and I wish it well.