Health Bill [HL]

My Lords, I support the Motion moved by the noble Earl, Lord Howe, for three good reasons. The first is that it would restore the situation to what the Government consistently declared for month after month they wanted, and almost certainly privately still would want but are reluctant to admit for fear of irritating their Back-Benchers in the other place, so many of whom are infuriated by the Government’s response to the Clegg and Kelly proposals. Let us remember that only six months ago, on 6 May, the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, said: ""We are … looking … to new mechanisms being trialled here in the UK to ensure that the most effective approach is taken to tackle this problem. Should it become necessary"—" those are the critical, operative words— ""we are committed to using the power in this Bill to prohibit cigarette vending machines altogether. We intend to introduce requirements on vending machines from October 2011 and to measure their efficacy over a period of two years. Should underage sales from vending machines remain a problem after that period we will move to ban them".—[Official Report, 6/5/09; col. 600.]" That is a fair, balanced and responsible approach. The second reason is that a blanket ban, as the noble Earl, Lord Howe, and the noble Lord, Lord Naseby, pointed out, would cause much dislocation and hardship, with a number of long-established businesses going bankrupt and many hundreds of people losing their jobs at a time when unemployment is forecast to get progressively worse. I have to tell my noble friend Lady Finlay that unfortunately these machines cannot be converted to selling anything else. The third reason is perhaps the most important, whether we happen to be on the libertarian or the restrictive side of the general smoking debate. Although we all, whichever side we are on, want to discourage under-18s from taking up smoking, the Commons amendment could be counterproductive and result in more underage people smoking than would have been the case if the clause had been left alone. The new machines referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours—incidentally, they stock only legal, duty-paid cigarettes, apparently quite a rarity in certain northern cities—will be tightly controlled and monitored. If they are banned, the cigarettes that pubs and similar places have to stock will have to be kept under the counter, loose. At busy times, hard-pressed bar staff will find it difficult to keep tabs on them. This will almost certainly be taken advantage of by wily teenagers. Let us revert to the sensible compromise put forward by the Government six months ago and retained until quite recently, to give the new machines a trial, see if they actually work and cut down teenage smoking, and then—but only then—move to ban them altogether if necessary.