Apprenticeships, Skills, Children and Learning Bill

My Lords, I shall start by being clear about the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Lucas. If Ofqual wants to do sample testing—the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, asked this as well—the Secretary of State can do nothing to stop it; it will be an independent regulator. Ofqual can perform sample testing but, as the noble Baroness suggested in her opening remarks, not for the purposes set out in the amendments. It can do so as part of fulfilling its objectives—to check the consistency year on year, if it so wishes, under the standards objective. The noble Lord, Lord De Mauley, spoke eloquently just now, although I do not agree with his analysis, making the case for why we need this independent organisation, Ofqual. This is set out in paragraph 14 of Schedule 9, where it is clear that Ofqual can perform sample testing as part of fulfilling its objectives. There are supplementary powers in Schedule 9, while Clause 164 gives Ofqual the ability to undertake research. As the noble Lord reminded us, he talked in Committee about the importance of Ofqual undertaking research and providing a strong evidence base for its work. We must, and do, support that. On several occasions we have used the analogy of the height of the hurdle and the number of children who jump over it. The noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, has asked whose job it is to ensure that as many children jump over it as possible. That is an important question. It is a policy responsibility of Ministers to work to increase performance standards in our schools, and Ministers must be and are held to account by Parliament. There are a number of sources of evidence about whether standards are improving; qualifications and assessments are one way of measuring that, but by no means the only one. As the noble Baroness knows, Ofsted looks at standards through its inspection judgments. Those judgments will be brought together in the new school report card, which, I hope, we will enjoy debating at length in a few weeks. We do not think, however, that there is much value in seeking to come to a single judgment on standards, as it is a complex issue. Even if that were possible, rather than combining the variety of measures across all ages, subjects and areas, it would be much better to focus our efforts. The noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, asked about the Ofsted report on 14 to 19 delivery. Ofsted was reporting on the teaching of 14 to 19 qualifications; Ofqual will regulate them. The noble Baroness has expressed her party’s vision eloquently, but her amendments would turn Ofqual into a kind of super-regulator, which would have to come to a view on the performance of the education system as a whole, from young children right through to adults. There is a debate to be had on whether there would be value in establishing a body to try to come to such a view; indeed, such a debate, as the noble Baroness suggested, was held in another place in March. The Government disagreed then with the view underlying the amendments and we do so now. We are discussing what Ofqual is for. Ofqual’s role, as set out in the Bill, should be to maintain standards of qualifications and assessments. That is a challenging but vital job, as the noble Lord, Lord De Mauley, stressed. We firmly believe that Ofqual should be allowed to have real focus. Others share that view. In their evidence to the Bill Committee in another place, both the chair of interim Ofqual and the director-general of the AQA awarding body were very clear, saying that for Ofqual to take on the job of looking at performance standards as a whole would give it too wide a remit and would create enormous challenges for it. There are some issues of principle, too. The amendments suggest that the single most important role of qualifications is to test the performance of the system—the number of children and young people who jump over the hurdle. While that is one purpose, as we shall discuss when we reach Amendment 185, it is not the most important. The single most important reason for having qualifications is to recognise and reflect the achievements of learners—to make sure that the skills and knowledge that they have gained can be understood by employers and higher education institutions and that we as a society can recognise their achievements. If Ofqual were to focus on the performance of the system, it would risk losing sight of the needs of learners, which could be very damaging. Moreover, this objective would add significantly to Ofqual’s costs. Conducting proper annual sample tests in different subjects across all age ranges and making meaningful international comparisons would not be inexpensive. We are not convinced that it would be a good use of Ofqual’s resources as it starts out. It would be better to focus those resources on improving the quality of education. Finally, the amendment would leave Ofqual conflicted. If Ofqual ran sample tests, who would check, and provide assurance, that those tests were being organised fairly and that standards were being maintained? We want Ofqual to be the regulator. Let us leave it to do that critical job. With regard to Amendment 160, it has been suggested to me by my officials that we could look at amending the Bill at Third Reading to require Ofqual to report its view on standards overall in its annual report. I am not sure how the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, or other Members of the House would feel about that. We discussed the relationship between Ofqual and Parliament in Committee. The Committee was keen that there should be a comprehensive exchange of information between Ofqual and Parliament, so I am prepared to think about that carefully. I ask noble Lords to think about the hurdle picture. We are keen to ensure that we can be clear in this country that, when our young people leap over a hurdle, they can be really sure that we will all recognise how high they have achieved.