Welfare Reform Bill

My Lords, I cannot give the noble Lord any timeline, as he well knows. Clearly, this is not a short-term project and there are complexities around it, as he will well understand. In Grand Committee, I detailed that although people who receive income support will be moved to other benefits before it is abolished, they will not receive less money as a result and they will not be subject to the requirements based on people who are required to look for work. I repeat that assurance now. During the passage of the Bill, we have listened to the genuine concerns of my noble friend and others and, as a result, we have put a number of safeguards in place to ensure that, before any category of person is moved from income support, there will be ample opportunity for scrutiny by the Social Security Advisory Committee and both Houses of Parliament. We have also made commitments in both Houses that income support will be abolished only when there are no longer any groups for which it is needed because alternative provision will have been made, using either the new powers in Clause 3 or other available powers. That includes carers, whom we will not move until we have looked carefully at their position as part of our work on long-term care and until we have a clear and detailed plan for the longer term which includes the right to the provision for carers. I hope those reassurances are helpful. In Amendment 31, my noble friend touches on the role of the advisory committee. In Grand Committee, I detailed the role which I believe the advisory committee will have. I am happy to repeat that. First, any regulations made under Section 124 of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992 will be subject to scrutiny by SSAC as part of its duty to examine any regulations under Acts of Parliament governing social security. Where we are unable to follow that procedure, voluntary arrangements will be in place which allow us to provide SSAC with information on new legislation which would not normally fall within its remit. That includes new primary powers and the regulations made within six months of commencement of those powers. In Grand Committee, I gave the assurance that we would pursue those arrangements in respect of his clause. I repeat that assurance here. As well as that scrutiny, we have agreed with the recommendations of the Delegated Powers Committee in respect of the clause, and have tabled an amendment to ensure that any order made to provide that Section 124 should cease to have effect will be subject to affirmative procedures. That will ensure there is further debate before income support can be abolished. Finally, as I said earlier, we have made commitments in both Houses that we will abolish income support only when there are no longer any groups for which it is needed, and that includes carers. I hope that my noble friend is reassured by that. Certainly the people who make representations to her will be reassured, on reading the record, and we stand ready to do everything we can to reinforce that reassurance if my noble friend thinks it would be helpful. Accordingly, I ask her not to press her amendment.