Policing and Crime Bill

My Lords, we have Amendment 152BM in this group. We are delighted with the news that the Government intend to withdraw their incredibly inadequate proposals and bring back something far more complete later. Secondary legislation was certainly no way to deal with such a critical issue, when what we are talking about—the presumption of innocence—is a cornerstone of our justice system. I am extremely pleased that the noble Baroness, Lady Neville-Jones, is equally taken with the Scottish system as of course we are. When we were in coalition on the Executive in Scotland, my Liberal Democrat colleagues led the charge to introduce a far more practical system, which is proving to be more effective than that in England. I should be interested to hear from the Minister on that. No doubt he is aware that despite the huge increase in the number of profiles on the database from 2.1 million in 2002 to 5.6 million last year—these are the most recent figures that I have—the number of detected crimes in which there was a DNA match has reduced from 21,000 to just 17,500. That suggests that the huge increase is producing its own problems and that the database is becoming unwieldy. That is a practical issue. In the interests of time, I wish to concentrate on the principle issue, which is that innocent people should not have their DNA kept on the database and that those involved in a minor crime should not expect to be on the DNA database year after year. The Government have lost the ability to see where the point of rehabilitation and dues paid to society arrives. At that point there is no presumption of innocence. I am aware that if the noble Lord, Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate, were here he would tell us, as the Minister did at Question Time the other day, of all the crimes that have been solved as a result of DNA. There is certainly an argument to be had. Nevertheless, there has been no national debate on whether we should have a database. I am aware that the Government have a consultation out at the moment, and it will be very interesting to see the responses to it and to find out when the Government intend to bring back legislation to address what is now a very pressing issue. Almost a year has gone by since the European Court of Human Rights ruled on the retention of the DNA samples of S and Marper and it is very urgent that that happens. The Government have heard that both opposition Benches are very attracted to the Scottish model and, when they bring back this legislation in an acceptable form, I advise them to do so in a Bill that deals only with this issue. If they add it to a Bill containing many other issues, in a Session that will last 16 sitting weeks at most and probably less, there will be no chance of getting this legislation through and they will then be faced with deep problems so far as concerns the European court ruling. If they kept it simple and practical and along the lines of a model that already works in the United Kingdom—that in Scotland—they would have a very good chance of getting it through.