Policing and Crime Bill

My Lords, the noble Baroness and the Committee may be aware that the recent public consultation on the review of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act, known as PACE, recognised that bail at the police station was an area which would benefit from clarity of powers and the application of those powers. Therefore, I acknowledge that there is an issue here which needs examination, but I am unable to agree the proposed changes set out in these amendments. It is important that that examination is ongoing in discussions between the Home Office and the Ministry of Justice. I recognise that some noble Lords, and people in the wider community, view the application of conditions to bail before charge as a restriction on the liberty of the individual. Moreover, those concerns are compounded by the fact that such restrictions are placed on the individual not by a court but at the discretion of a custody officer or, in the case of street bail, the arresting officer. However, we need to look at the benefits of going down this route. The purpose of bail pre-charge is twofold. First, it is to ensure that a detainee spends as little time as necessary in police custody; for example, while other avenues of the investigation are pursued. It also frees up police time. Secondly, it is to ensure that, so far as possible, a released person remains available to assist with the investigation and does not interfere with the investigation or otherwise break the law. It is a matter for the custody officer to determine whether there is a case to answer and whether the suspect should be detained. That is determined on a case-by-case basis. Similarly, where a decision has been taken to detain a person, the custody officer and detention review officers will consider at regular intervals, as required by PACE, whether the grounds for detention remain. Similarly, on the use of street bail, it is for the arresting officer to determine whether the person should be brought before the custody officer for a decision on whether he or she be held in police detention, or whether the person can be issued with bail on the street. The latter benefits the individual, as I have said. It also helps free up officer time in travelling to and from the station and keeps them on the beat—we have been pushing across the board to keep policemen on the beat for longer—rather than in the police station. The noble Lord, Lord Skelmersdale, asked whether we had any evidence of inappropriate or disproportionate behaviour. We do not have any evidence of that at the moment although I note with interest the point raised by the noble Baroness on an incident around the Palace of Westminster, which I find surprising but I do not know the circumstances of the case. Consideration of bail does not mean that the investigative process has been completed, but that other elements of the investigation can proceed without the need for the suspect to remain in detention. That has to be good for the person involved. The application of discretion by the custody officer or, for street bail, the arresting officer, is an important element of this process. We have no evidence of inappropriate use of this power. What the noble Baroness said about Hampshire police was interesting, but the input that I have received is that, overall, the police are keen on this process. There must be training for the police to be aware of how to deal with this. I am a great believer in allowing discretion to people such as custody officers and police on the beat. I look on the issue in military terms as mission command—allowing people to get on with the job. Generally, one achieves a good result when one provides overall guidance, monitors it, but lets people get on with it. The custody officer has to consider on a case-by-case basis whether the person should be released on bail with or without conditions. The officer should consider whether it is necessary to attach conditions for the purposes of preventing that person from failing to surrender to custody; preventing that person from committing an offence while on bail; preventing that person from interfering with witnesses or otherwise obstructing the course of justice, whether in relation to himself or any other person; for that person’s own protection; or for his welfare or his own interests, if he is a child or young person. Attaching conditions to pre-charge bail provides an additional opportunity for the person to be granted bail in situations where the custody officer may have some concerns. Removing the ability, as Amendment 152 Zulu Bravo proposes, to attach conditions to pre-charge bail, other than in relation to serious offences, may result in fewer detainees being released on bail. That would be an unfortunate by-product. That may well be an unintended consequence of the noble Baroness’s amendment, but it is likely to be the actual outcome. I hope that noble Lords will agree that release on bail with conditions is more preferable to that person remaining in the confines of a police cell. If a person is not satisfied with the conditions attached to pre-charge bail, he or she may appeal in the first instance to the custody officer. They also have the option of applying to a magistrates’ court to ask for conditions to be removed or varied. I was not aware of the legal aid issue, which I should like to take away to think about, because I am not sure of the exact situation. Perhaps we may need to look at that. The current system, therefore, enables an officer to deal with the individual and their particular circumstances. That has to be a good thing. This amendment would remove that ability and use of discretion. The timeframe of 72 hours proposed by Amendment 152 Zulu Charlie is highly unlikely to be operationally realistic. Bail can last for weeks, and sometimes months, depending on the nature of the investigation. The idea of a person going to and from the custody suite every three days for, say, two months, would not only involve significant police bureaucracy and resources but would cause significant disruption and no doubt some antagonism for the individual. Guidance on street bail, which the noble Baroness asked about, is available for officers when they are away from the police station. As a result of the PACE review, guidance will specifically cover conditions of street bail and pre-charge bail. Instructions are given on those aspects. The noble Baroness asked a question which I could not answer because the information was not collected centrally. I, too, did a little digging around on this. As a rough estimate, between 20 per cent and 30 per cent of people arrested are released on pre-charge bail, but we do not have precise figures. For those reasons, I ask the noble Baroness to withdraw her amendments.