Apprenticeships, Skills, Children and Learning Bill

I am grateful to the Minister for her words and to other noble Lords who have taken part in this debate. Given what I have been trying to do, I would have been terribly disappointed if I had not been accused of going over the top. Indeed, I am most grateful to the Minister for saying that she would at least consider the issue of the deputy chair. The deputy chair will, of course, stand in the position of the chair on occasions. If that person has been given the support of the board, that will be all to the good. I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Sutherland, for expressing his support for that idea. I understand the noble Lord’s point about the whole board being made up of Crown appointments. As the Minister said, I am quite aware that there is no precedent. Given what the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, said about the independence that a Crown-appointed person feels, that is why we wanted to give that element of a feeling of independence, and the confidence that it brings, to the whole board. However, I accept that there is no precedent for that, and that Ofsted has proved to be independent, so we will certainly consider what has been said about that. I am interested in the idea—suggested, I think, by the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham—that the chief regulator should be able to add appropriate people to the board. Between now and Report we will look at that idea and see if we want to bring forward further amendments to allow that to happen if it were appropriate. I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady O’Neill, for asking her question. The office of public appointments is still young; its processes are still embedding. That is why we have not felt total confidence that the process will produce a wholly independent board that cannot be influenced by the Secretary of State. I am encouraged, however, by what the Minister said about the first chief executive being an interim appointment. If that is to be the case, I think I will bring forward an amendment on Report to put the word "interim" in the Bill, which would make me happier. It certainly gives me some reassurance to know that it will be an interim appointment, and that Ofqual itself will appoint the first permanent chief executive, in so far as these appointments are ever permanent. I am most grateful to all Members of the House for their thoughts, because it has certainly moved on my thinking as to how we will take this issue forward. We probably will in some way. I look forward very much to hearing what the Minister comes up with in relation to the deputy chair. I encourage her to do her best to accept that idea. In the mean time, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment 219 withdrawn. Amendments 220 to 224A not moved.