I support the amendment, at least for very careful consideration. The noble Baroness reminded me of the McCann judgment. It is really a distinction without a difference here, because the criminal standard of proof and the enhanced civil standard must be so close.
We want to make this measure effective, if we are to put it on the statute book. In Clause 33(2): ""The first condition is that the court is satisfied on the balance of probabilities that the respondent has engaged in, or has encouraged or assisted, gang-related violence"."
I can see that, for the reasons that the Minister gave, it may be difficult to prove that they actually engaged in it; there may be a wall of silence. But if there is to be an injunction at all, it is likely to be possible to prove on the criminal standard of proof, leaving aside the civil standard, that they have "encouraged or assisted". It is all very close to "aided and abetted"—the ancient words used in so many criminal statutes.
This matter demands further thought in the Home Office to come up with exactly the right formula and not to make it too weak in an area where very substantial infringements of liberty could be wrongly imposed. I believe that you can square the circle and probably achieve what you need without breaking away from the criminal standard of proof. That is what I would like the Minister to think further about.
Policing and Crime Bill
Proceeding contribution from
Lord Lyell of Markyate
(Conservative)
in the House of Lords on Tuesday, 13 October 2009.
It occurred during Committee of the Whole House (HL)
and
Debate on bills on Policing and Crime Bill.
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713 c170 
Session
2008-09
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