Child Poverty Bill

Well, I am greedy because I want both. I want a Select Committee that embraces the different Departments because that is a good way to hold them to account, but I also want an annual debate in this Chamber so we can look meaningfully at what progress is being made and have a debate on that. To my mind, those two means serve different purposes and we should explore both. On the definition and measurement of success, I know we will have a debate on the 10 per cent. versus the 5 per cent. and I think it is right that we do so, and I also think it is right that we look at whether we can get down to 0 per cent. There is a danger of getting into a statistical morass when looking at the four different measures, but that does not mean that those of us who do not want to play with statistics should not look at what lies behind the statistics. Given that there are international obligations that we have to look at—the Department for International Development is examining how it measures its ability to deal with poverty in different parts of the world—we should be willing and able to reflect on what we are doing in this country. Local authorities are key. There is no point in pretending that central Government can tackle this issue. They certainly cannot do so in partnership with the voluntary sector; they have to do it in partnership with other parts of the statutory sector, in which local authorities are key. We have various performance indicators, which I hope can be addressed. I welcome the fact that almost all local authorities now include climate change in the targets they are willing to address, and I would hope that they would include child poverty as something that everybody wants to eradicate, but if we do not target resources on it locally, it never will be eradicated. I wish to see that happen. I also issue a plea for us to use the Sustainable Communities Act 2007. I want organisations to see this as one of the triggers they want clearly to identify themselves with in taking forward policies and having the motivation to ensure everyone is included. I am a wee bit nervous that some groups might be excluded from the measurement of children in poverty. Asylum seekers, those in care, Traveller families, and those who have specific disabilities and therefore do not appear on the radar screen are the very children who are the most vulnerable. If we say they are too difficult to measure and that it is impossible to see how we could eradicate their position of poverty, that is a sad indictment, because we ought to be looking at measures that can include those very difficult to measure and vulnerable groups. Moving towards what we want to achieve does not involve simply looking at the statistics and the four different measures. As many Members have said, it also involves looking at the poverty of aspiration, which is what causes the greatest dissatisfaction for those in poverty as they not only cannot see themselves getting out of poverty, but they cannot see how they can get their children out of poverty. Of course, attacking the cycle of deprivation must underlie our approach. With those reservations, and given that many Members have covered the points that I wished to talk about, I do not intend to speak for any longer. I hope that we can debate these matters in the presentations and the sittings that will be available in Committee, so that we can bring back an even stronger Bill to which everyone will commit themselves, because by 2020 we should have ended child poverty.