Parliamentary Standards Bill

When I put down this amendment originally, we were faced with a rather different Clause 8, if we accept the amendments that we are about to come to, as I am sure we will. It is in terms of that that we will have the wider clause stand part debate, so this whole new debate can be seen as a precursor to that one. I am equally looking forward to the questions of my noble and learned friend Lord Mackay of Clashfern for the noble Baroness. In that context, perhaps I could make a small procedural point. I have noticed one or two Peers saying, "Before the noble Baroness sits down". Since we are in a Committee of the whole House, there is no need to say it because we can ask as many questions as we want, as we may well need to on this occasion. The reason why I suggested this as a probing amendment was that I was slightly confused as to what was intended by the new offence and its interaction with the provisions of the Fraud Act. I suspected that the noble Baroness would give us quite a long answer, which she has done. I am still a bit mystified, which is why I will have to study it. I do not have the experience and knowledge of the noble Lord, Lord Elystan-Morgan, who deals with this stuff all the time. However, I was struck by what the noble Lord, Lord Peston, said about debates in the Constitution Committee and the views of my noble and learned friend Lord Lyell and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Woolf. If their view is that this offence is unnecessary because it is already covered in the Fraud Act, that is powerful. It is a pity that they are not in their places to make the point. I understand the difficulty that the noble Baroness is in because of police investigations, but can she say whether under this new offence dishonesty would need to be proved? In other words, is it possible for an MP to be prosecuted without being dishonest? If they do have to be dishonest—this is where I am slightly lost—why cannot the prosecution be made under the Fraud Act? I suspect that we will come back to all this in the next debate. I will read carefully what the noble Baroness has said before making a decision on what we will do on Report. I moved the amendment because it looks at the part of Clause 8 that brings in the regime of offences under this new law. It is important that we understand what is being done so that our colleagues in another place understand what it is that they are up against when this becomes law. On that basis, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment 76A withdrawn.