Policing and Crime Bill

Clause 29 does three things, and I shall take them in sequence. Removing the requirement to prove that the person under 18 "intended" to consume the sealed containers of alcohol in their possession will make it easier for the police—we have had a lot of dialogue with the police—to confiscate all alcohol from those under 18 years of age in public places. We are talking about situations where, for example, 12 or 14 youngsters are at a bus stop. Some of them are very drunk, some are not very drunk and some are just watching what is going on. Some are holding drink and some are not. The proposed change should have a positive impact on removing or minimising alcohol-related crime and disorder. Too often, the police hear excuses such as, "It is not mine, I was just holding it for someone else"; or, "I was not going to drink it". This makes it extremely hard for them to take action against young people in possession of alcohol in public. That is why they believe that this change is necessary, and I agree with them. I am sure that, in some circumstances, an individual under 18 will have a reasonable excuse for refusing to comply with police instructions to surrender their alcohol: for example, if the young person is with a parent and is helping to carry their shopping. I mentioned the example of going out for a picnic. We agree that alcohol should not be confiscated in such instances, and we expect the police to exercise discretion. However, these situations are very different from the ones that the police are telling us about: for example, groups of young people, some over 18, some under, at a bus stop or in a park, all drinking. It cannot be the norm for young people to be allowed to wander around in groups with alcohol in their possession. I hope that noble Lords agree with me. The requirement in Clause 29 for a police officer to request the name and address of the person under 18 is linked to the new offence in Clause 30 of persistent possession of alcohol in a public place. Under that clause, it is an offence for a person under 18 to have alcohol confiscated from them three times in any 12-month period. As such, it is necessary for police to know if the individual has had alcohol confiscated before. Taking down the individual’s name and address will allow this to happen. It is interesting to think back to my grandfather, who was a beat bobby in Brixton. He knew all the scallywags, knew where they lived and knew all their families. We are in a different world now. He would probably have clipped them round the ear—which nowadays would get him arrested—and taken them back to their house, where their parents might have smacked them, which would get them arrested now, too. Some forces already take down the details of those from whom they confiscate alcohol. This good practice should be consistent across all forces. There are concerns that, when someone provides their name and address, they will be incriminating themselves under proposed Clause 30, which creates the offence of persistently possessing alcohol in a public place. However, this is not the case. Under the proposed changes to provisions in the Confiscation of Alcohol (Young Persons) Act, it will be an offence for a young person whose alcohol has been confiscated to refuse to provide their name and address when required to do so. The child does not incriminate himself by giving his name and address and complying with the law. The personal information provided by the young person under the provisions of the clause may be used to prove the offence of persistent possession, but it is the fact that the person is caught in possession of alcohol three times that triggers the offence, not the fact that they have given their name to the police. Finally, the clause makes provision for the police, should they deem it necessary, to return persons under 16 to their home or a place of safety. The safety and welfare of young people is a key concern of the Government—as it is of all noble Lords—and I assure noble Lords that we take the issue very seriously. We do not consider that it will be necessary in all cases to return a person under 16 to their home or a place of safety. That is why the clause does not say "must", but "may" take the person to their residence or a place of safety. Not all children whose alcohol has been confiscated will be at risk of harm if they are not returned to a place of safety. Whether they are will depend on how the police assess the situation, and we have to assume that they can do this. The provisions of the clause allow police to use their discretion, so that a decision that considers the vulnerability of the person under 16 can be taken in the light of circumstances. I know the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, feels this is putting too much on the police but I think that we should expect it of the police and that they are capable of making these judgments. The police already have some powers to remove persons under 16 to a place of safety under the Anti-Social Behaviour Act 2003—I have covered this already—for example, if is a question of alarm or distress and if they behave in that sort of way between 9 pm and 6 am. Under the Children Act 1989 the police also have emergency powers to remove a young person at risk of significant harm—