Policing and Crime Bill

I had not intended to speak on this part of the Bill, because I so profoundly agreed with the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd of Berwick, and the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, that I did not think that I could add anything useful, but I am impelled to my feet by what the right reverend Prelate said. If he is right that a culture change lies behind the Government’s intentions, what the noble Lords, Lord Lucas and Lord Waddington, said has the greater importance. The Government ought to come to clean; they ought to get rid of Clause 13, as the noble Lord, Lord Baker, said earlier, and look again. If they think that they ought to get a culture change by tackling the worst of it, it will not work; they have to ask, "Is it wrong for men to pay for sex?". There are a lot of people who say that it is wrong and a lot of people who say that it is not, but the Government have to say one way or the other. However, to take part of the problem and use a strict liability clause to do it is anathema to most people and not just to lawyers. One has to be very careful in either House of Parliament to approve of strict liability, despite what the right reverend Prelate said—I respect his view but, in my view, he is wrong. A strict liability clause is such a serious matter that one has to be very careful. To use it as part of a culture change seems not to meet the problem. The Government have to nail their colours to the mast and say whether it is wrong for men to pay for sex or only for some men to pay for sex with women who are trafficked. Those men are not all that evil; it is the traffickers who provide the women and, particularly, the children. The Government criminalise the children under 18 at the moment, and will continue to do so unless the relevant amendments are put through—I may not be able to be here for those. I hope that the Government will listen on children under 18. They say that they are victims, but they can also be criminalised and prosecuted. To go for the men in part of it is not to meet the problem. If it is a question of a culture change, the Government should nail their colours to the mast and get on with it.