Legislative Reform (Minor Variations to Premises Licences and Club Premises Certificates) Order 2009

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. Strangely enough, when I started thinking about the kind of response that I was going to put to the Minister, even before this debate, I wrote "disappointing". The Minister rightly anticipated that I am pretty disappointed by his reply. I suspect that he feels that he is coming into a conversation that has been taking place for some time, but it is an important conversation for the future of live music. We all thought the Government were taking part in the conversation, but it now appears that they have almost given it up, which is rather sad. I thank my noble friend Lord Redesdale and the noble Lords, Lord Colwyn and Lord Howard of Rising, for their contributions, all of which were extremely constructive and reveal some of the flaws not only in the current Licensing Act, but in the minor variations order. I enjoyed the contribution of the noble Lord, Lord Colwyn. I am always willing to have my tail twisted in that fashion. At the time, we accepted a new Clause 117 in good faith, and we have now been able to repent at leisure, having seen that it is a completely useless clause that nobody has taken advantage of throughout the history of the Licensing Act 2003. We still appear to be going backwards. The noble Lord, Lord Carter, talked about the impact of the new minor variations order on live music, but I thought that, forensically, the noble Lord, Lord Howard, had it absolutely right. This is a minnow of an order, but such as it is, as a lawyer, I could come up with all kinds of objections under it. ""The variation proposed in the application could not have an adverse effect on the promotion of any of the licensing objectives"." If I had taken the order seriously, I would have made points similar to those made extremely well by the noble Lord, Lord Howard. Frankly, the order will not give rise to a greater amount of live music in small venues or in social and sports clubs. I am not going to push the amendment to a vote. Frankly, I do not think this minnow of a minor variation order merits it. As the Minister knows, over both tobacco advertising and casinos, I have been quite prepared to do the Government’s work for them and prompt them into action. As regards live music, the Culture, Media and Sport Select Committee has made it plain that the Licensing Act needs primary legislation to ensure that the necessary exemptions for live music are created. It seems extremely sad that the Government appear to have given up the ghost in the face of objections from the LGA. I therefore intend to introduce a Private Member’s Bill that will provide a conditional exemption for live music in small venues licensed under the Licensing Act 2003. This exemption will be conditional on Section 177, which will be triggered so that a licence for live music can be reviewed, and if complaints by local residents are made, then there can be a full, proper hearing. The second element of the Private Member’s Bill will be to reintroduce the two-in-a-bar rule so that any performance of unamplified live music by up to two people will be exempt from the need for a licence. Thirdly, the Private Member’s Bill will provide a total exemption for hospitals, schools and colleges from the requirement to obtain a licence for live music when providing entertainment where alcohol is not sold and the entertainment involves no more than 200 people. I look forward to debate on that Private Member’s Bill, which I hope to persuade Members of this House, and later the Government, to support. I know that those provisions will have great support, not only down the other end of this building through the Culture Media and Sport Select Committee, but also from all those who have an interest in the spread of live music in small venues. I withdraw my amendment at this point but I look forward to future debate. Amendment withdrawn.