Legislative Reform (Minor Variations to Premises Licences and Club Premises Certificates) Order 2009

My Lords, any attempt, however modest, towards reducing bureaucracy and the burden of red tape must be welcomed. Before going further, I declare some interests. I am a district councillor. I own an ancient monument and have to apply for a licence under the Act, and I am chairman of the National Playing Fields Association as well as chairman or president of my local football and cricket clubs. On a previous occasion when Section 182 guidance of the Licensing Act 2003 was debated at the instigation of the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, speaking for the Government the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Oldham, commented that their Lordships were using the occasion to debate the main principles of the 2003 Act as much as debating the guidance which was the subject of the debate. It is difficult to debate any aspect of licensing without a reference to some, if not all, the problems created by the 2003 Act. I speak in the hope that one day the words spoken in this House will fall on more fertile ground than they have done so far. The noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, has spoken far more ably than I could on licensing and music, assisted by my noble friend Lord Colwyn and the noble Lord, Lord Redesdale. I again draw to Her Majesty’s Government’s attention that the 2003 Act has imposed a disproportionate burden on small organisations, such as social and sports clubs, especially in rural areas where bar receipts can constitute a significant part of income. It is difficult in small country communities for money taken out of the community in the form of licence fees to be replaced from other sources. The Culture, Media and Sport Select Committee in another place recently commented that it was highly unsatisfactory that not-for-profit and sporting clubs with modest turnover and laudable aims should be treated in exactly the same way as commercial operations. The committee also concluded that although the Act had improved the process the system was still too bureaucratic, complicated and time-consuming. Recent press reports have said that the noble Lord, Lord Carter, is leaving the Government in July after presenting the Digital Britain report. I cannot say that I blame him, although I am sure that it will be a loss for the Government. I hope that he will listen to what has been said today and, before he goes if he is indeed leaving, make the point to his successor that there are issues that need addressing. Before finishing, I should comment that the wording in new Section 41B(3)— ""could not have an adverse effect"—" is the same wording used in new Section 86B(3)(a). It is hardly ever possible to say that something could never have an adverse effect. The adverse effect might come from something exceptional and improbable, but if it could happen, however unlikely the event, the order says that the local authority must reject the application. Perhaps the Minister could confirm that the intention behind the wording is for it to be in ordinary or reasonable rather than any or exceptional circumstances. The Minister might also clarify the wording on the 15-day limit, which says that if approval for an application is not given within 15 days then it is automatically rejected, although a reapplication can be made. The reapplication, and any subsequent ones, could equally be ignored under the 15-day rule, thereby allowing the application to be rejected without giving any reason as is required in new Section 86C(5), the last paragraph in the order. I would be grateful if the Minister could confirm that the Government do not intend the order to be used in that way.