Welfare Reform Bill

Perhaps I may deal with the amendments in reverse order. I say to the noble Lords, Lord Rix and Lord Skelmersdale, and the noble Countess, Lady Mar, that training issues are of course important. They have to be addressed, and we will shortly be having a full debate on them. That applies particularly to advisers recognising people with mental health conditions, learning disabilities and fluctuating conditions. I know that that is a longstanding and challenging issue. In response to the inquiry from the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, it is intended that these pilots or pathfinders will be fully evaluated. I certainly see part of the evaluation covering the extent to which sanctions may flow from them and the circumstances in which that will happen. In response to the noble Countess, Lady Mar, and the issue of lone parents of younger children being able to choose to stay at home, let me be clear again—they can. Nothing in the Bill requires lone parents to look for work if their youngest child is younger than seven. The "work for your benefit" provisions are for those subject to the full JSA conditionality, which eventually will involve lone parents where the youngest child is as young as seven. We have not reached that yet. People in the progression-to-work group cannot be directed to work under those processes. If my memory serves me right, I think that good cause would certainly cover issues around religious objections to requirements. We have spent some time on this amendment but it is a very important one. Perhaps I may pick up on issues around mental health. I think it was the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, who said he thought that there was official denial of these issues. There has been huge effort across government to examine mental health issues, and I would assert that some progress has been made. There is certainly more to be done. As the noble Lord is probably aware, a cross-government strategy is being drawn up, headed by Dame Carol Black, to look at employment and mental health. There has been progress in Jobcentre Plus, with mental health co-ordinators being embedded in the Jobcentre Plus districts. There have also been developments in IAPT—improved access to psychological therapies—with employment advisers being embedded in that approach as well. There was a recent announcement by the former Secretary of State, James Purnell, about the programmes that are known to work for those with serious mental health conditions. The employment of people in that category has not proved good and that will be evaluated, focusing particularly on some of the Sainsbury centre proposals and experience around placing people and training them, rather than training them and then seeking to place them. I recall that there are also issues about engaging with people who come through the Prison Service as well, though I do not have the detail at my fingertips. The Government are serious about and focused on this issue. It is certainly an important issue, and certainly more progress needs to be made. Much rests on the training that Jobcentre Plus staff receive. We will have an opportunity fully to debate that in due course.