Welfare Reform Bill

I apologise to my noble friend because we are all interrupting his speech, but this is a really vital point. Most of the other considerations with which sanctions are quite properly being aligned are things that are relatively objective to measure and judge. They concern reasonable and unreasonable distances to travel, the level of physical health, questions such as whether the interview will be cut across by a hospital appointment or a caring responsibility for an elderly person. It is clear that decisions cannot simply be voluntary because if that is the case, some of the hardest-to-reach people who could most benefit from being progressed to work would never be exposed to it. But the problem with childcare, as all who have had to juggle it with our professional lives will know, is that it is often a subjective judgment: will my child be happy and thrive in these circumstances? Will they relate to this person or not? Is my child particularly clingy at the moment because, say, Daddy’s work has altered or another baby has arrived? I can say from my own experience that my childcare arrangements had to be changed numerous times. Had I been under this sort of regime, I would have worried whether someone who had not had children would appreciate the essential need to match the mother’s judgment of where the children will thrive and encouraging that mother back to work. I find that hard to work out. Clearly, the lone parent cannot say, "None of this works; I’m determined to stay at home; frankly, sod off", as that is not a way in which we can make the legislation work. In this measure more than in anything I am aware of, there is a grey area of good faith, of subjective judgment in which there may be no meeting of minds between the personal adviser and the mother. I want to know how we can take this forward. I find it very difficult indeed. I hope it will be a tiny problem. I daresay that many parents may be unreasonable and, time and again, I have met parents who say, "I’m not going to leave my child with strangers; I will feel guilty about going back to work; I will not hold the job down; I will leave at the first possible opportunity". If we are in that type of culture, we are in for problems. Perhaps my noble friend can help further about how we can square the circle, as it is difficult. I do not think that any of us has the right answer.