National Assembly for Wales (Legislative Competence) (Agriculture and Rural Development) Order 2009

I imagine they are—but I do not have a definitive response to that. If the noble Lord will allow me to develop the theme a little I may have help near to hand to answer that precise question. I did not look them up on the internet because I have extremely helpful officials who make absolutely sure that I am fully informed before I come to these debates. If it does not appear that way, then that is my fault and not theirs. The papers are on the National Assembly website. So the noble Lord, Lord Glentoran, knows where to look in the future. However, I shall be more helpful than that if I possibly can. Not everyone in the Committee necessarily has the instant expertise that the noble Lord, Lord Glentoran, has for pursuing issues in these terms. The noble Lord, Lord Roberts, also asked why the Assembly subject committee does not consider the LCOs. The National Assembly for Wales established a specific ad hoc committee to scrutinise the red meat LCO that is before us. Subject committees do not consider LCOs, as a special committee is set up for each one. In the same way, the National Assembly establishes a specific ad hoc committee to consider each measure. I think that that is right. After all, this is the first measure for some time to be brought under the specifications of the legislation. I do not think that it is too demanding on the resources of the National Assembly that it addresses itself specifically to the orders, because they are always about a specific issue, but they need to be put in the context of the development of devolution legislation. I am rather pleased that it takes that degree of care about its consideration. We benefit from that. The National Assembly's legislative competence is clearly set out in Schedule 5. My noble friend Lord Elystan-Morgan was in danger of waxing lyrical about certain aspects of Schedule 5 and what we could do in a referendum in future. I am glad that he restrained himself on this occasion beyond a mild indication of his support, as I remember our rather lengthy debates on the matter when we considered the Act. I do not think that Welsh legislation is, as the noble Lord, Lord Roberts, contended, piecemeal. It reflects the policy and legislative requirements of the Welsh Assembly Government and the National Assembly. Their priorities dictate the emergence of these orders. We all know the scrutinising powers that the Secretary of State and committees here have, but the initiative is their responsibility and I think that they carry out their obligations in a way that we can only applaud. They are certainly not pressing this House and Parliament generally with excessive demands for increasing powers; they do so judiciously, where it can be advantageous. This is one instance where I think that I have detected from the whole of the Committee that the order is of importance to the people of Wales, because of the economic significance of the industry. I reassure the Committee about the independence of Hybu Cig Cymru, because it was stressed that that ought not to be compromised given the work that it has done and the repute that it has in Wales for the task it has carried out. Nothing in the order threatens it; quite the opposite, it enshrines that degree of independence so that it can carry on its good work in that area. Had there been any suggestion that that relationship changed, we would have had a rather different consideration of the order. That structure still obtains. The noble Duke, the Duke of Montrose, asked me about contracting out powers. I recognise the difference in Scotland from the Wales arrangements. He will probably appreciate that many in Wales cast envious eyes at some aspects of the Scottish position. It is sufficient to say this. I pricked up my ears when it was suggested that Welsh interests were not being considered on the marine Bill. I think that the noble Lord, Lord Livsey, who has worked hard through the long hours of the day and night spent on that Bill, will bear testimony that he has been most forceful in making sure that the Welsh coastline and marine surroundings have been taken fully into account. He has been assiduous in that. Having an interest myself in ensuring that Welsh interests should be fully considered within the framework of that Bill, I have not detected too much criticism on that score, but I may have opened up a flank that the noble Lord, Lord Livsey, will now expose.