National Assembly for Wales (Legislative Competence) (Agriculture and Rural Development) Order 2009

I, too, welcome and support this proposal unreservedly, and agree with everything that has been said, particularly by the noble Lord, Lord Livsey. It would be difficult to exaggerate the importance of the red meat industry in the context of Welsh agriculture and of the Welsh economy as a whole. Some 33,000 people derive a livelihood in one way or another from that industry. I understand that in the past financial year it contributed £108 million by way of exports and £316 million to the agriculture industry. My second point is that, although the proposal is a complicated one and constitutionally significant, essentially it endorses a de facto situation that already exists, by way of Hybu Cig Cymru—which, as the noble Lord, Lord Livsey, has explained for those who do not speak the language of heaven, is a body that promotes Welsh meat. That body has existed for some years and has won considerable support and acclaim. I understand, and this was not challenged when the matter was debated in the other place, that the measure has in fact been drafted by Hybu Cig Cymru itself. It is a body corporate that is based on guarantee, wholly owned by Welsh Ministers but enjoying a substantial measure of independence. I seek an assurance from the Minister that the independence of that body will not be in any way affected, even though there is a substantial legalistic change regarding its basis. It is on that basis, I understand, that there has been total support for it in Wales from Hybu Cig Cymru itself and from both farming unions in Wales, which do not always necessarily see eye to eye on everything that occurs in the field of agriculture. There are two matters that I wish to raise, and I hope that I do not seem churlish in so doing. First, there has already been reference to the Natural Environment and Rural Communities Act 2006. There was a glorious opportunity there to do exactly what we are doing today, but three years have been lost. The reason for that was some lack of liaison between the Welsh Assembly and Parliament. Who is to blame? Who pleads guilty? Who comes to the stool of penitence in relation to that? I know not; it probably does not matter. But three years of what would have been an opportunity to give an injection of support and inspiration to this body have been lost. My other point has already been alluded to by the Minister, who quoted the Welsh Affairs Committee statement: ""the Welsh Assembly Government has identified a clear need for the proposed Order"." I am not sure what that means. If the committee means, "We totally agree that this goes in the right direction and in the rut of a proper principle and the inevitable development," I wholeheartedly agree. If, on the other hand, they mean, "We have set up our little screening device, and one of those screens is that the Welsh Assembly, before it brings any order before Parliament, has to satisfy us and other bodies that there is a need for it", it has no earthly right to do that. Part 3 of the Act does not set up such a screen, and if the committee proposed to set one up, it would, to use a phrase that is used in courts from time to time, be going on a legislative frolic of its own. I hope that some assurance can be given about exactly what the Welsh Affairs Committee meant by that. If it is the former, fine; if the latter, no.