Marine and Coastal Access Bill [HL]

My Lords, I am very glad to respond to this debate. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, that the amendment is not necessary, but I suspect that the noble Lord, Lord Taylor, put it down to allow for a wider debate on the joys of the common fisheries policy and the interesting questions raised by noble Lords. I know that behind the amendment is concern about the conservation powers available to us. Doubt was raised as to whether we have powers to require the use of certain types of fishing gear. Section 3(1) of the Sea Fish (Conservation) Act 1967 states: ""The Ministers may make an order for securing that the nets and other fishing gear carried in any relevant British fishing boat registered in the United Kingdom comply with such requirements as to construction, design, material, or size, including, in the case of nets, size of mesh, as may be prescribed by the order"." The section continues with provisions which provide even more flexibility in the use of these powers. The powers more than adequately cover the use of equipment, methods and material, with the purpose of seeking to prevent or reduce the by-catch of non-target species. If powers are required to regulate fishing gear to prevent or reduce marine environmental by-catch—for example, dolphins and porpoises—we can use the combined powers available under Sections 3, 5 and 5A of the Act, which provide for restrictions on fishing for marine environmental purposes. These powers can clearly be used in a way that requires the use of certain types of fishing gear when fishing for a particular species or in a particular area. The problem with the amendment is that it could have serious consequences by casting doubt on the legality of any existing use of these wide-ranging powers. I understand why noble Lords are concerned about the whole issue of by-catch and why they are seeking to know what the Government are doing about it and what the result of discussions in Europe are likely to be. We are funding a range of work in collaboration with the industry to look at the marketing of less commercially valuable species, which are often discarded, as well as making the respective fishing activity more selective in terms of species or size. We will continue to encourage the industry to use such gear modifications as prove successful on, for example, vessels that have been allocated additional days at sea under the cod recovery programme. In June 2008 the European Commission published a non-paper containing proposals to address the problem of discard. It acknowledged that a number of instruments are needed to reduce by-catch and eliminate discards effectively and that they will vary from fishery to fishery. These proposals were discussed by member states during 2008. Although legislative proposals are yet to come forth from the Commission, my understanding is that the fisheries Commissioner, Joe Borg, has made clear that the issue is high on his agenda. The non-paper proposed experimenting with the application of maximum allowable by-catch limits set at levels significantly below that which is currently understood to be discarded. The onus would then be on fishermen to reduce significantly the by-catch from current levels and they will only be permitted to land by-catch within the maximum allowable limits. Under the proposal, by-catch within the MABL will be given or sold to a body designated by the member state, although the Commission was not specific on what use could be made of the by-catch and whether the MABL would count against quota. If by-catch caught is above the MABL, quota adjustments are then made for the following year depending on the overshoot, although we have expressed our concern to the Commission about the implications for quota management of those aspects of the proposal. We see logic behind the suggestion that fishermen should keep all the catch instead of dumping a significant part of it into the sea, and we support the principle of targets for allowable by-catch to achieve rapid reductions in discarding where current discard levels are high. However, we have to be realistic about the fishing industry and what it can achieve without threatening its long-term viability. I do not believe that anyone thinks that there are any easy answers to this. During last year’s EU-Norway discussions, a high-grading ban was introduced for 2009 in the North Sea and eastern Channel. This ban prevents the discarding of fish caught which are within quota and over the legal minimum landing size. The signs are that the EU-Norway agreement is capitalising on management measures to address the issue of discarding in a practical way. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Taylor, that, on our visit to the "Cefas Endeavour" on the Thames, it was interesting to discuss with the scientists some of the measures that can be taken. Our shared objective as responsible fisheries managers is to minimise and eventually eliminate discarding as an issue. I do not think that there is any doubt or disagreement between us about the importance of this matter. Whether a discard ban would help to achieve this in EU fisheries is part of the debate on common fisheries policy reform and obviously will need to be considered carefully in association with the progress we are making more generally on resolving the discard issue. The EU committed to a ban on high grading through the EU-Norway agreement and the TAC quota regulation. We think of the high-grading ban as having a positive influence on fishers’ behaviour. While some parts of the EU legislation have to be revised to remove conflicting regulations, we think that this sends a positive signal that fishermen cannot discard fish based on their perceived commercial value. The message is that if it is legal, it should be landed. The UK has been at the forefront of cod recovery measures to reduce discards of cod by implementing a number of spawning and real-time closures through both the Scottish conservation credits scheme and the England and Northern Ireland equivalents. In 2009, this scheme has been accelerated with mandatory closures in operation throughout the cod recovery zone and incentives for the uptake of selectivity measures to reduce discard mortality on cod stocks. There is always a question about the national powers available to ban discards and our view is that it is much more effective to tackle this problem under the common fisheries policy as discards occur in Community waters where a number of member states’ vessels fish. National powers under the Sea Fish (Conservation) Act 1967 cannot be used to weaken any provisions under the common fisheries policy, such as allowing fish which do not meet CFP size requirements or allowing fishermen to land outside set quota limits. We are in discussion about whether we can reform the CFP. Let me say that my colleague Huw Irranca-Davies, the Minister with responsibility for fisheries and the marine environment, and the manager of this Bill, wrote to Commissioner Borg to press the case for reform of the CFP to deliver a much closer integration and broader marine environmental policy. Commissioner Borg has said that he shares the Government’s view that, ""the future CFP needs to take into account the wider integrated approach"," and that the CFP needs to become, ""an effective tool for the management of fisheries in the context of marine protection"." These are early days in the journey of reform to the CFP but we have to take that response as an encouragement. I certainly do not underestimate the task that lies ahead of us, but that is entirely how we wish to see the CFP reformed. On the point raised by the noble Baroness in relation to the Norwegian issue, we think that the ban is worth looking at, although it may not be appropriate for all fisheries. The benefit is that the Norwegian authorities have provided the Commission with their experience of operating a discard ban. The expectation and hope is that the Commission will use that experience to draw up further initiatives in this area. Of course, the circumstances of fisheries in EU waters are different. The situation in mixed fisheries pursued by vessels from a number of states is different from Norwegian fisheries which tend to be directed more towards single species. We are not clear whether measures used in Norway would be as effective within the Community. We need to look at that matter very carefully. A ban in itself does not prevent by-catch; the fish are still caught but they are not returned to the sea at the point of capture. There is also the question of what happens to the non-discarded fish, especially if they are undersize. We do not wish this to lead to the development of a market for juvenile fish. So although it is not a simple solution to discarding, our preference has been to avoid by-catch in the first place by making fishing activity more selective. This brings me back to the issue of a much more fundamental reform of the CFP. The signals coming out of Brussels have been positive, not only in the sense of what Commissioner Borg has written but in the general sentiments that have been expressed about the CFP simply not working at the moment. I hope that I have at least convinced noble Lords that we understand the importance of dealing with by-catch and discards. We believe that we have to work within Europe. We think that the Norwegian experience is relevant and we expect the European Commission to use that example in framing its own measures. Fundamentally, we have to go to the core of what the CFP is all about. I have no doubt that there is a challenging time ahead of us on that issue, but the signals are probably more positive now than they have been for some years.