Online Purchasing of Goods and Services (Age Verification) Bill [HL]

My Lords, I join other noble Lords in thanking my noble friend Lady Massey for her commitment and her care, and for the opportunity to discuss this important subject. I assure her that this Government completely share her objectives and that her concerns will be brought to the attention of all relevant departments. She made the point well that this is a cross-departmental issue. I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, who made one of the few statements today about the importance of the internet and e-commerce to the economy, the way we live and the way we operate our lives in terms of offering choice, convenience and greater participation for everyone in society. Since 2002, for example, internet sales have grown from 19 billion to nearly 163 billion a year. Of course, we want these innovative industries to flourish, but the primary importance given by this Government is to the protection of children. We agree—it has always been the Government's position—with the statement made by the noble Lord, Lord De Mauley, that activities deemed to be illegal offline are also illegal online, which includes the selling of restricted goods and services to underage customers. Existing law requires all retailers and providers of goods to verify the age of customers buying restricted items, such as alcohol or other goods which have been mentioned today, or using restricted services, such as gambling. As noble Lords have pointed out, because the law does not stipulate how retailers and service providers must verify the age of their customers, they are free to adopt a variety of methods. Many noble Lords referred to gambling, and it is interesting to note that this approach has been shown to work. The Gambling Act 2005 obliged all gambling companies to ensure that under-18s could not access their services. This brought them in line with other retailers offering age-restricted goods and services. The Act did not draw any distinction between online and offline gambling, nor did it stipulate any particular method for verifying ages. But it has succeeded due to the industry's own efforts, which the Children's Charities' Coalition on Internet Safety acknowledges. Its briefing paper states: ""We are unaware of any cases where a young person has breached the rules since September 2007"." Just as the gambling industry has accepted its responsibilities, so should, and I believe do, the majority of retailers. The focus therefore has to be on the enforcement in practice of existing law. Some face-to-face retailers ask for proof of age such as a birth certificate or passport, while others will assess it through a simple visual check. But these methods are not failsafe and will not prevent underage consumers from accessing restricted goods and services in every case. That is just as true for online sales as it is for those made offline. However, responsible online retailers are already making real efforts to ensure they are not selling goods and services to underage consumers and we are working closely with them to prevent underage knife sales of all kinds. As a result, a number of major retailers do not sell knives online and we are encouraging other retailers to adopt this approach. We are currently working with 21 retailers who have signed up to a six-point agreement. The majority of them have removed knives for sale from their websites, and we are looking at several options, including more robust systems for age verification, for those retailers who do sell knives. Of course, retailers who continue to sell knives to children can expect to receive the strongest penalties, including up to six months in prison. The British Retail Consortium, meanwhile, recommends that deliveries of age-restricted goods are made directly into the hands of the customer so that their age can be checked at that point. Online service providers are also employing a number of methods to deny access to children who are underage or who have misrepresented their age to get into a restricted website. For example, some will send a cookie to the computer to prevent the user from attempting to re-register with false age details. The noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, mentioned a potential code for credit cards. Some providers currently charge a nominal fee to the credit card used when registering for their service. The fee is subsequently refunded, but it shows up on the credit card statement and thereby alerts the parent to their child's activities. That might not be foolproof if the child can get an alternative code, but it may be a better method to pursue. In addition, an increasing number of providers are offering free downloadable software enabling parents to monitor and, where appropriate, restrict the services their children can access. I fully understand the concerns that my noble friend Lady Massey seeks to address. We share her objectives and this Bill reinforces our determination to protect children using the internet. But I hope I have been able to illustrate that the majority of online retailers and service providers take their responsibilities seriously. Indeed, the noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, intimated that she has relevant evidence in certain sectors, but as she also said, there is no perfect solution. However, I shall write to the noble Baroness and the noble Lord, Lord De Mauley, in response to the specific questions they put to me. Reference was made in the debate to Tanya Byron's review of child internet safety which reported last year, and as a result we have set up the UK Council for Child Internet Safety. This forum, which reports directly to the Prime Minister, has brought together Government, industry and other stakeholders to draw up an online safety strategy for children and families. In June, my noble friend Lord Carter will bring forward proposals to improve consumer safety online when we publish the Digital Britain report. For the reasons that I have outlined, I must express reservations about the new regulations being called for in the Bill. We do not think that they would address the difficult issues in practical terms and would not lead to a foolproof means of age verification. We believe that the answer lies not in introducing new legislation but in more strictly enforcing the existing provisions. Trading standards officers are well aware of the issue and are making concerted efforts to tackle it. Indeed, there is a risk that having separate rules for online transactions could create confusion for retailers, consumers and the authorities, thus making enforcement more difficult. Here I agree with the noble Earl, Lord Erroll, and the noble Lord, Lord De Mauley, about the imposition of regulatory burdens and the risk of potential unintended consequences and a lot of practical difficulties. While we are sympathetic to the aims of my noble friend's Bill, the law outlawing the sale of restricted goods and services to underage consumers is in place for good reason, and we believe that the focus should be placed on rigorous enforcement of the clear and comprehensive rules that are already in place.