Online Purchasing of Goods and Services (Age Verification) Bill [HL]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Massey, for and congratulate her on introducing this Private Member's Bill, and I offer her my support. She talked about the missing mechanisms and ticking boxes. Her Bill ticks a very important box that is currently unticked. When considering an issue such as this, I ask myself four questions: is the law right; is it reasonable; is it working; and could it be improved? On the first question, the law says that young people should not be able to buy certain products by any route. Is that right? Yes, I believe that it is right, because we must protect young people from making bad decisions until they are old enough to make their own adult decisions. Knives, guns, certain games and DVDs, alcohol, solvents and gambling are all very harmful and can destroy young minds and young lives. While the illegal sale of all these products concerns me—including alcohol, covered by the noble Baroness, Lady Coussins—I believe that the sale of weapons is the most dangerous. Last December, the Evening Standard conducted a survey that showed that 25 teenagers had been murdered by guns and knives on the streets of London last year and that their average age was only 17. Children as young as 13 were being charged with offences in connection with those murders, and of course we must bear in mind that their lives are being destroyed, too. Among others, the spokesman for the police's Operation Trident revealed that children are routinely carrying knives and guns for their own protection—they think. However, they do not realise that doing so puts them even more at risk, as fatal events inevitably happen in situations where years ago children would just have had a street fight and gone home with nothing worse than bruises or a cut lip. Where are children obtaining these weapons? We must tighten up on their availability, as well as tackling the individual and community problems from which these feelings of insecurity and disengagement arise. This Bill would help to do that. It would be just one step. Retailers have quite enough of a large adult market and there is no need to allow a free-for-all with children. Secondly, is the law reasonable? Yes—there should be a level playing field between high-street and online retailers, otherwise there would be an enormous gaping hole in the system of control that Parliament has put in place. If high-street retailers can be controlled, we must find a way of ensuring that online retailers stay in line without imposing an unwarranted burden. I take the point that the noble Earl, Lord Erroll, made about that. Thirdly, is it working? Clearly not. As the noble Baroness, Lady Massey, told us, a 16 year-old volunteer at Greenwich Council went online and managed to buy knives, age-restricted games and DVDs, and alcohol from 12 reputable retailers using legitimate forms of payment. Only three of the retailers asked him to confirm his age and he just gave false information that was not checked. Finally, can the law be improved? That is what this Bill is all about. Is there a model that can show us the way? Yes—the online gambling industry has developed simple systems whereby it takes the reasonable steps that the law requires it to take to ensure that the purchaser is old enough to buy. The framework imposed on it by the Gambling Act 2005 has resulted in a range of suppliers, including 192.com, mentioned by the noble Baroness, Lady Massey, offering the industry a service that does not restrict or unduly delay legitimate sales, but is effective in stopping young people taking part in online gambling. The Children's Charities' Coalition on Internet Safety, which has briefed your Lordships on this issue, has not heard of any young person breaching the rules since 2007. So it sounds to me as though it is a model that is working and one that we could follow in relation to all the other age-restricted goods. These services can very easily be used by those selling other age-restricted goods, and they should be similarly compelled to use them. A small profit margin for a retailer is not worth the risk of destroying the life and potential of a young person. It occurs to me also that the banks could play their part. Your Lordships will recall that, following money-laundering legislation, it has become very irksome to open a new bank account. One has to prove in great detail who one is and, in so doing, one has to prove one's age. When young people open legitimate bank accounts and obtain legitimate cards, by which they are able to pay for online goods, they will have to prove their age. Could not the banks use some sort of code in the long number across the card to indicate that that person is underage, until such time as they become of age, when they would obviously get the same code as everyone else? Some simple mechanism, such as a special code, would reveal that that young person is under 18 when they had to put the long number into the computer to buy the product. That idea that occurred to me only yesterday when I was buying something online just after having considered my remarks today on the Bill. I hope that the Minister will look sympathetically on the Bill proposed by the noble Baroness, Lady Massey, and either allow it safe passage through the House or take up its measures herself and incorporate them into government legislation as soon as possible, before more teenagers die or have their minds warped or their lives destroyed. The internet is a valuable tool for good. It can be used for an enormous amount of learning. It is convenient, and all of us use it all the time, but we must protect children from its dangers. As I have said many times in your Lordships' House, child safeguarding is the responsibility of every oneof us, every retailer and every organisation in this country.