Health Bill [HL]

My Lords, I shall set out very briefly the formal position of noble Lords on these Benches and to address one or two points that have not been covered in the debate so far. I will not take very long, because there is a danger that we will not reach two measures that most definitely will have a positive impact on youth smoking—banning vending machines, and plain packaging—if we continue this debate for a great deal longer. I came to this debate as someone who strongly supported the tobacco advertising Bill of my noble friend Lord Clement-Jones. I also advocated the ban on smoking in public places. I, like the noble Earl, Lord Howe, came to the debate wanting to see evidence of what works. Perhaps my biggest disappointment has been that we have been bombarded from all sides of the argument by evidence which, as the noble Lord, Lord Borrie, rightly said, is dubious and highly speculative. I listened very carefully when the noble Baroness, Lady Howarth, started to talk about indicative evidence. I wanted evidence that this measure would work. We on these Benches supported a number of amendments in Committee from my noble friends, such as an amendment to have a comprehensive strategy, and we supported the ban on vending machines, but we wish to see the evidence on point-of-sale displays. I have found the case made by small shopkeepers far from compelling. I have not met them, but I have read every single piece of lobbying that has come to me. Much of it is overstated, so I am not going to rely on their evidence. The evidence from Canada and Iceland is extremely weak, and that is the main evidence that has been used by the cancer charities. I am afraid that the fact that it is not convincing has not necessarily been put to me by tobacco manufacturers, who I have the pleasure of not meeting. The NHS Confederation itself said that those studies cannot prove causation. That is a key stumbling block for me because of something that has not been mentioned so far. People have drawn parallels with other products, and I have found many of those parallels spurious. What has concerned me is the number of young people who make their way to finding distributors of other addictive drugs. The policy of "out of sight" has not worked for other drugs such as cannabis and heroin. Noble Lords have not mentioned the fact that, between 2001 and 2007, sales of smuggled tobacco in Canada increased by 2,000 per cent. The one organisation that I have met is ASH. I have been trying to find evidence not only that this strategy will deter young people from buying products in shops but that it will not drive them into the hands of the illegal trader. For me, that is a major consideration. Having thought about this every day for several months, I have on balance come to the conclusion that the noble Earl, Lord Howe, is right. My colleagues, as noble Lords have heard, disagree strongly with me. It is their right to do so. I respect them, and I respect Members on other Benches who disagree with those on their Front Benches. We will have a free vote. I do not know what the outcome will be; the noble Earl, Lord Onslow, may yet swing it. I simply hope that when any Government present serious public health proposals to this House in the future, they can do so on the basis of independent and reliable evidence. That is what we have missed all the way through.