Welfare Reform Bill

My Lords, my noble friend is right to say that once the youngest child reaches the age of seven the lone parent would move out of the progression-to-work category into the work-ready category and that therefore the full range of the requirements for jobseekers would apply. That would certainly include issues about travel times and costs, but there is flexibility in the system to recognise that lone parents may have to take their children to and pick them up from school and that there may be difficulties with transport—the points that she is concerned about. I do not believe that anyone would be sanctioned for not taking up a job if unreasonable travel costs or times were imposed on them, but clearly there is an element of conditionality. My noble friend and the noble Baroness, Lady Thomas, referred to grandparents and the changes to national insurance contributions. I am pleased that that is welcomed. I thank my noble friend again for campaigning on that. I am pleased that we got that one out of the way; it will make life easier during the rest of our debate on the Bill. The noble Lord, Lord Skelmersdale, asked whether we propose to pilot the DEL-AME switch. We do, as part of the proposals that run on from the White Paper. My noble friend Lord Watson said that conditionality was a blunt instrument. I disagree with that assessment. One of the thrusts of the Bill is to personalise the arrangements much more than in the past, so that there is that flexibility in the system. He asked about the extent to which the provisions have been developed in conjunction with the devolved Administrations. In broad terms, they have. He asked about provision of childcare. I should make it clear to him and to the noble Duke, the Duke of Montrose, that if childcare is not available no one could be sanctioned or required to take up a job or engage in work-related activity. My noble friend Lord Watson also talked about workfare. I should be clear that "work for your benefit" is not workfare. Workfare is a largely punitive programme of work aimed at dissuading claimants from continuing their claim. We believe that we should learn from the experience of other countries to ensure that full-time work experience is backed up with additional employment support to give the long-term unemployed the best chance of taking work in the open market.