Welfare Reform Bill

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have spoken in this debate. I am grateful for their excellent and informed contributions. The noble Lord, Lord Taylor, said that I should be pleased with the tenor of the debate, as I am, but it is right to say that the broad direction of these provisions has widespread support, although I acknowledge that there are concerns about some elements, particularly delivery. I look forward to Committee stage. A whole range of questions have been asked. I shall try to deal with as many as I can today and I am sure that in Committee we shall pick up the rest. I start with the regulation-making powers. The noble Lord, Lord Skelmersdale, mentioned them, as did others, including the noble Baroness, Lady Thomas. It is right to say that the Bill is a framework Bill; much of the detail of the Bill will be in secondary legislation. Of course, these reforms are pioneering and they will allow us to test what works best. There is some merit in having flexibility around the processes so that we can see what delivery works best. Where we have draft regulations, I can assure noble Lords that I shall make them available and, where we do not, I shall provide, as honourable friends provided in another place, a dossier of information relating to the secondary legislation when we reach Committee stage. I hope that that will assist our deliberations. The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Portsmouth, who unfortunately is not in his place—we well understand why—started by asking whether this is the right time for these proposals. There were some mixed views, but most believed that it is right to drive them forward now. In my view, that is absolutely right. That was illustrated by the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Rix. We know that people with learning disabilities are a long way from the labour market in many respects, but we would leave them further behind if we did not proceed with these provisions now. Like others, the right reverend Prelate asked whether this is about saving money. That is not the thrust of the proposals. It is about learning from the mistakes of the past so that we do not consign people to benefits and give them no support. We as a society and they as individuals with families suffer from that still. The issue of resources was raised by the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, and by the noble Duke, the Duke of Montrose, who asked whether we would close down Jobcentre Plus offices in Scotland. I shall reiterate the resources that have been made available in recent times. The PBR, in November 2008, provided an additional £1.3 billion to ensure that over the following two years Jobcentre Plus and providers could be properly resourced, given the increases in throughput. That enabled an additional 6,000 staff. There was an additional £100 million-worth of employment-focused provision aimed at the newly unemployed. We have doubled the funds for the rapid response service. In the Budget 2009, a few weeks ago, an additional £1.7 billion was provided for Jobcentre Plus as well as something like £1 billion for the future job fund. It is right to focus on that—resources are going in. The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Portsmouth asked who determines who is capable of work. As is the case now, the work capability assessment will be carried out by a medical practitioner. The WCA determines whether someone has limited capability for work and whether they should receive ESA or go on to JSA. The final decision on benefit entitlement is carried out by a civil servant. I shall touch briefly on the child maintenance proposals. I understand that they now have the support of the Conservative Front Bench. The noble Lord, Lord Sheikh, spoke firmly about them and said that the provisions had to be used proportionately. That is absolutely right. The provisions about withdrawal of driving licences or passports are right at the end of the chain of sanctions held by the commission. As I said, I hope that their existence will act as a deterrent. The noble Lord, Lord Skelmersdale, was a little unclear about the various age groups operating within the Bill. We said the age of seven, but do we mean six or five or whatever? Let me be clear that we are dealing two groups. There is the progression-to-work group, where proposals will be focused on lone parents with children between the ages of three and six. We also have the routine JSA approach, which covers the work-ready group. Progressively, we will move lone parents away from income support to jobseeker’s allowance. By next October, I think, jobseeker’s allowance, with a full conditionality regime, will operate for lone parents whose youngest child is aged at least seven. A number of noble Lords spoke about the right to control. I believe that it was widely welcomed. I am pleased about that. The noble Baroness, Lady Campbell, in particular, warmly welcomed it, but she and the noble Baroness, Lady Thomas, asked whether it would be joined up and why we excluded social care from the provisions. The answer is that we did not want there to be overlap in legislation. We are very clear that there must be a joined-up approach. The noble Baroness, Lady Campbell, asked about trailblazers and whether they were testing whether the right will work or how it will work. Disabled people have told us that the new right to control is too important to get wrong. We need to evaluate its impact on disabled people, service providers and public authorities. The trailblazers will evaluate the best ways to implement the right and will be used to inform the decision about the national rollout. Several noble Lords referred to the measures around drugs, some in support and some with a degree of scepticism. The noble Lord, Lord Skelmersdale, said that he was in support. The noble Baroness, Lady Thomas, described them as the most worrying aspect of the Bill. The noble Lord, Lord Sheikh, was in favour. The noble Baroness, Lady Meacher, said that there is no quick fix to deal with people who abuse drugs. We agree with that. I would like to explore the proposition that she advanced about the different positions between the DWP and the Home Office; perhaps it is a fruitful area for discussion in Committee. The noble Baroness, Lady Murphy, asked about the use of the word "propensity". Why does the Bill use that expression? A person who has a propensity to misuse drugs is somebody who, although not physically or psychologically dependent on a certain drug, is a habitual or regular user of it. I think that the expression is used in other provisions. The noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, pressed the Government on whether proper resources would be available to deal with these proposals and whether we would engage with those who are active in this field as we develop them. The answer to the first question is yes; the resources must be available if we are to make this work. Secondly, yes, of course we will engage with those who are active in this field, as we do—and will, I hope, continue to do—in so many areas of policy development. The noble Baroness, Lady Murphy, asked whether we were forcing claimants to undertake medical treatment against their will. I think that that was the thrust of her point. If a person’s drug problem means that they would benefit from treatment, they can be required to agree to and follow a rehabilitation plan. The plan will include the treatment that has been determined by the drug treatment specialist to be the most appropriate for that person. My noble friend Lady Hollis, as ever, challenged me with a powerful contribution. I think that her expression was that JSA is for men and income support is for women. While I welcome the support of the noble Baroness for the thrust of the Bill and, indeed, the Bill more widely, perhaps we might disagree on the gender apartheid of the benefit. I am sure that we will have a chance to discuss that more fully in Committee. My noble friend asked some pertinent questions about childcare costs and travel time. Travel time for lone parents and the work-related activity requirement will be tailored to individual circumstances, with considerable discretion for personal advisers. Similarly, several noble Lords raised the issue of who decides what childcare is suitable. Personal advisers will work with parents and the childcare partnership manager to identify and access appropriate childcare provision but will not dictate to parents which type of childcare or particular providers they must use. That remains a decision for parents.