Welfare Reform Bill

I agree that that is the starting point. That is the starting premise behind the Green Paper, the White Paper, the work that Freud and Gregg have done, and the work by many social welfare organisations and think-tanks across the political spectrum. That is right and proper. The wider starting premise of all the measures is that we will give as much focused, personalised help and support as possible to every individual, in all circumstances. As my hon. Friend the Member for Bradford, North, said, that starts with what we offer people as soon as they come through the doors of Jobcentre Plus, and goes on to include the six-month package that we will offer from 6 April. I have some sympathy with the hon. Member for Rochdale (Paul Rowen) on his broader point. There should be a debate on where the more substantial support should come. I happen to agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Bradford, North that flipping the system over and having it all at the beginning is probably not appropriate, but the point made about whether the period should be three, six, nine, 12 or 18 months is fair—it is a fair point for debate. That point for debate, however, was totally missed in our discussion on the amendments about "work for your benefit" schemes. The illusion given was that we were talking about universal sanctions that start straight away, and that we were seeking to apply "work for your benefit" schemes to every single claimant, which is far from the case.