Health Bill [HL]

I do not think that my argument depends on 17 per cent being the precise figure. My argument is that many children are able to, and currently do, purchase cigarettes from vending machines wherever they happen to be. The Department of Health, in association with business and commercial bodies, has issued guidance that recommends that vending machines should be located within the sight of a supervisory person at the bar. That does not seem to be borne out by colleagues from the British Heart Foundation who did a short pub crawl around this area last Tuesday or Wednesday and identified two pubs within walking distance of here where the vending machine was not in the line of sight of someone behind the bar. If the Minister wishes to check this out for herself, it is much nearer than Saskatoon. As things stand at the moment, the guidance does not seem to be working. In a busy pub with five doors and which is crowded at different times of the day, it is quite easy to see how children, particularly those who look 15 or 16 rather than 10 or 11, can get in and get cigarettes. Whatever the precise figure is, there is sufficient evidence that a number of children do that. The other route to curb this is to have a system of an age ID card. I do not have any hard figures but we probably underestimate the skill of our children if we think they will not be able to get around it. This has been introduced in a number of countries, including Germany—there is also an article on it in the Irish Times—but some surveys suggest that these kinds of mechanisms generally do not work. However, I do not want to put too much weight on those surveys because they are not yet complete. In order to preserve vending machines we are trying to set up systems which will not work very effectively and will have loopholes that will allow children still to be able to purchase cigarettes. We are making life much more complicated than we need to when a simple solution is available to the Minister: that is, to prohibit the sale of tobacco in cigarette machines. Adults who are disadvantaged can easily go somewhere else, and that may well benefit the small corner shop. She does not need to be brave to go down this route because the amendment is in line with all other government legislation on this kind of issue, in line with much of what our European neighbours do and, so far as we can tell, in line with public opinion. I beg to move.