Health Bill [HL]

I appreciate the noble Earl’s words. In the debate in the Northern Ireland Assembly that took place last Tuesday on this issue, a spokesman for the Northern Ireland Health Committee indicated that the Northern Ireland small retailers association, the one to which I referred, was supporting the effort to do away with the displays. Of the organisations that the noble Earl has talked about now, at least one has been in contact with me to indicate that it was opposed to the change because it would not make any difference. That is a rather odd argument—if it does not make any difference, why not let it go through? It was well known that these issues were going to be debated in Stormont. If the organisations knew about that, why did they not come along and put their views to the health committee? If you read the debate, you will see that the Northern Ireland Assembly, without a vote and without any dissent, passed the Motion seeking to introduce at the first available opportunity the legislation to do away with displays. These retailers in Northern Ireland seem to be extremely well informed about the debate that took place last Thursday. I am very pleased that there are small retailers in Northern Ireland who spend a lot of time reading these debates and are then able to send extremely interesting and detailed e-mails listing exactly what happened and who said what to which and for whom, although I do not know if that is very good for their trade. It is interesting that this Committee is having a heavy impact among the retailers of Northern Ireland, who are watching it with great concern. I am quite prepared to accept that there are retailers in Northern Ireland who are opposed to this measure. However, my basic point sticks. I come back to the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart. Last Thursday, he mentioned that the retailers in Northern Ireland do things differently and that they are different. I do not understand that point. When I go into retailers in Northern Ireland I see that they have the same size of shop; they have customers, things on display and cash machines. The retailers in Northern Ireland look exactly the same as the retailers I find in the part of London where I live during the week. The only possible difference—and I accept there is a difference—between retailers in Northern Ireland and those in the rest of the United Kingdom is that Northern Ireland was the first place in the UK to impose a total ban. We also have a land border with the Irish Republic, so we understand the effect of a ban in a place that is not very far from us. This is where I acknowledge the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart. The retailers of Northern Ireland understand about removing the displays and the attack on smoking, especially for young people, which the Assembly has led in Northern Ireland and the Irish Government have led in the Republic, because they have had experience of it. That is the only difference that I can see, and I accept that it is a difference. In a debate in the Northern Ireland Assembly, the Minister of Health said: ""The stark facts are that in 2007, almost 9% of children aged between 11 and 16 in Northern Ireland were regular smokers. These children are 3 times more likely to die of cancer due to smoking than someone who starts in their mid-twenties. In fact, the vast majority (77%) of adult smokers in Northern Ireland started in their teens. These are shocking statistics and it is clear we must address this issue urgently"." I wonder what the noble Earl would like to do, if he and his party wish to remove this clause about displays. In what other ways will we stop people taking up smoking? How will we stop children taking up smoking? As I indicated on Thursday, the purpose of these displays is to catch young people. Over the weekend I did an experiment in a supermarket in London. I stood beside the tobacco counter to see whether anyone who came to the counter asked the assistant if he was selling cigarettes, what type he was selling, whether he could recommend a brand, how many cigarettes were in a packet, what colour they were, and so on. I stood there until a security man took an interest in me, and I left immediately. However, not one customer did anything other than go straight to the counter and ask, "Can I have a packet of x, y or z?". Could not those cigarettes be dispensed from another part of the counter? Could they not be dispensed from underneath the counter?