Borders, Citizenship and Immigration Bill [HL]

You will carry exactly the same things with you on the plane, because you have to have a way of identifying yourself. It is based on the principle that, once a person has been granted leave to enter one part, they will not normally require leave to enter another part of it while that leave is extant, and provided they do not leave the CTA, this will not change. That will still stand when they are inside the CTA. We have now reviewed the arrangements of the CTA and committed to implement a number of key reforms. Clause 46 of the Borders, Citizenship and Immigration Bill is the first step in taking these reforms forward. We have been talking with the Republic of Ireland about these things. We are clear that we are not abolishing the CTA. The CTA is based on the principle that once a person has been granted leave to enter one part, they will not normally require leave to enter the UK while that leave is extant and provided they do not leave the CTA. This will not change. Since 1997, the Republic of Ireland has maintained an immigration control on third country nationals arriving directly from the UK, including flights between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. British and Irish passengers are obliged to satisfy an immigration officer that they are CTA nationals. These changes will align our immigration procedures on intra-CTA routes more closely with those of the Republic of Ireland. Similarly, these reforms will align the UK’s CTA immigration controls more closely with its customs controls. UK customs controls already operate on routes between the Republic of Ireland and the UK and the Crown dependencies and the UK, with the exception of routes from the Isle of Man to the UK. The modest change in the Bill will allow important improvements in our ability to combat illegal immigration, terrorism and wider crime. It should be considered as one aspect of the wider reform of the CTA which will preserve its special nature. Those aims of improving security while preserving the benefits will guide our consideration of any further reforms. We must also recognise the facts of geography. The practical challenges of introducing routine border controls on the land border would entail costs that outweigh any theoretical gain. As with a lot of counterterrorism, you could expend our national wealth on it, and it has to be risk-based. That is not on the agenda. Some have tried to argue that there is no point in having the new controls on air and sea routes between the Republic and the UK which we propose if they are not replicated at the land border or on journeys from Northern Ireland to Great Britain. But our aim is not uniform and impregnable defences, which are of course unachievable. Our aim is to change the odds and make life significantly more difficult for people who are trafficking, illegal immigrants, other criminals and terrorists. Variable, selective and intelligence-led action can be particularly effective in doing that; we know that historically. CTA reform needs to be considered together with all the other things we are doing to strengthen our border and immigration systems both now and in the next few years. The e-Borders programme is particularly relevant as it will be the platform used to collect data. The platform will collect and analyse passenger, service and crew data provided by air, sea and rail carriers in respect of all international journeys to and from the United Kingdom in advance of travel. That will allow resources to be targeted on those intending harm to the UK or to deceive the UK authorities, while enabling the majority of bona fide passengers to continue their journey with minimal disruption. The e-Borders platform will receive and process travel document information for 100 per cent of passenger and crew movements by March 2014. Under e-Borders, it is the responsibility of carriers to submit passenger information via pre-defined interfaces to the operations centre in advance of travel. The legislation will mean that passengers on air and sea journeys from the Republic of Ireland to the UK will need to hold travel documents that satisfactorily establish identity and nationality so that carriers may discharge their legal responsibility to transmit valid passenger data, regardless of whether an immigration control is being exercised on that particular route at that time. Outside the CTA reforms we are also considering other changes. Under Section 14 of the Police and Justice Act 2006, the police have the power to require carriers to provide passenger data on specified domestic air and sea routes. That power could be extended to cover routes between Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Those routes offer the most suitable screening and intervention opportunities to address vulnerabilities from those crossing the land border between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland but we are not proposing setting up immigration controls on this route or requiring passengers to carry a passport or national identity document. The Police Service of Northern Ireland and other UK police forces would then be able to use data collected to support intelligence-led interventions to counter terrorism and tackle serious and organised crime such as trafficking. The Government have yet to complete consideration of when the 2006 power to capture data on Northern Ireland-Great Britain routes would be introduced. We intend to consult in the spring, with the consequent secondary legislation—for affirmative action—being taken forward in autumn 2009. I was asked many questions and will address some of them now. The Irish are fully supportive of our reform plans. The noble Lord, Lord Teverson, asked whether that means that we do not trust them. I would put it the other way, because the Irish are very keen on receiving the data from us: on that basis, perhaps they do not trust us. Let us put it differently: we both want to be absolutely certain what movement is happening because some of the bad guys are coming from us, from Northern Ireland to the Republic. The programme is there to obtain a handle on how bad they are and what they are doing. The noble Lord, Lord Shutt, asked whether the plans had been discussed with the Council of the Isles. My right honourable friend Phil Woolas has written to the British-Irish Inter-Parliamentary Body and the British-Irish Council about our proposals. I think I have covered why we were operating a different policy on the Republic of Ireland and Crown dependencies routes. The Republic of Ireland operates its own separate immigration control and the Crown dependencies are in practice very closely aligned and operationally integrated with those of the UK. Of course, international routes into the Crown dependencies are very limited. On the Crown dependency-to-UK route, we will increase the frequency of intelligence-led controls and we will not introduce fixed or routine controls or a document requirement to come from there. We have been in negotiation with the Crown dependencies. All I can assume is that this was not quite what they had expected to come out of the prolonged negotiations and we must have more discussions with them. On consistency with Ireland’s approach, I have already mentioned that since 1997 the Republic has maintained immigration control on third-country nationals. In response to the noble Baroness, Lady Hanham, the impact statement considers all impacts of public, private and third sectors. I have a very comprehensive breakdown of the costs and so on, and perhaps I may write to her and others who are interested in seeing them. There will be an impact on terrorism—I mean tourism. I certainly hope that there is an impact on terrorism because that is the whole point of doing the bloody thing—please excuse my unparliamentary language. The point of doing it is to get at the criminals and the terrorists, but there will also be an impact on tourism, although exactly what that impact will be is not quite so clear-cut. Perhaps I may write with the details because the figures are not very precise, but it is appropriate that we should look at that. A balance has to be struck. If the cost is £7 million, for example, we have to ask whether the extra safety that we will get as a result of the measures that we are taking is worth that £7 million. If there are any questions that I have not covered, perhaps noble Lords will get back to me and I shall try to respond to them in writing on the specific points. The noble Lord, Lord Teverson, raised the question of Schengen. As I said, there is no intention of our being part of that or of going in that direction at the moment. I think that we have more effective and secure borders because we are not part of it, and that is a good thing, bearing in mind some of the risks that there have been in the past. As I said, I do not regard the decisions on Clause 46 to be consequential on a decision on the amendments, and I should be very grateful if the noble Baroness would withdraw the amendment.