Marine and Coastal Access Bill [HL]

I am sure that we await that with eager anticipation. The noble Baroness, Lady Byford, is right; this is a complex issue and there is a balance to be drawn. That is why at this stage it is not possible to come up with some of the answers that the Committee wishes. I am afraid that a lot more work, science and research need to be done before we can be sure about these matters. This is a new development for this country and there will have to be—I am not sure that I should use the phrase "trial and error"—learning as we go along. That is why there is flexibility. The noble Baroness, Lady Young, had to leave but I should respond to her amendments as they are so important, although that is strictly against the procedures of our House. Her Amendments A115, A116, A117, A119, A149 and A150 all seek to ensure that there is a strong duty on the Secretary of State to designate a number of marine conservation zones. I reiterate and state clearly that the Government are fully committed to creating a network that will include more than one marine conservation zone, and the Bill requires us to do so. We have learnt the lesson from the past that we need to provide clear measures that are strong enough to meet the Bill’s aims and objectives. We acknowledge—this point was raised in our earlier debates—that the mechanism created by the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 was not strong enough, which is why we have included a duty on Ministers to designate sites so that they form part of a network of sites. Clauses 113 and 119 together clearly place a duty on Ministers to exercise the power in Clause 113 to designate sites and, moreover, to contribute to the creation of such a network. I have sought legal advice on this point and it is categorical. Amendment A152, also tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Young, seeks to insert a reference to the requirement for an ecologically coherent network of sites. Again, I reassure the Committee that, in imposing the duty to designate marine conservation zones, it is clearly necessary to set out as far as we can what constitutes a network, which we have done in Clause 119. Subsection (3) sets out three design principles, as developed for the Convention for the Protection of the Marine Environment of the North-East Atlantic and the International Union for Conservation of Nature, which should underpin a coherent network of marine protected areas. We have worked hard to learn more about the marine environment and, as I said earlier, we clearly have some way to go. Ecological coherence and the definition of the UK network will be evolving concepts. So, here again, it is important that we do not fully define this legally in the Bill. We are looking to provide guidance in our draft marine protected area strategy, to be published for consultation around Easter. This will reflect the Government’s thinking on what the network will look like. However, as the noble Baroness, Lady Byford, suggested, this is an evolving concept. On Amendment A151, the noble Baroness, Lady Young, would be glad to know that I think her suggestion about Ramsar sites and sites of special scientific interest is helpful. We think that there has been an oversight here. I shall reflect further on that proposal between Committee and Report. Amendments A114, A120 and A124—to which the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, spoke some time ago—seek to insert in the Bill a timetable for designating a network of marine protected areas. We have specifically not included a timetable as we are worried that even requiring an initial network to be designated by 2012 would create a perverse incentive on appropriate authorities to compromise on designations or conservation objectives, and would risk leading to the designation of a sub-optimal network. A timetable in the Bill could also apply an end point in developing the network when, in fact, it will be subject to monitoring, review, amendment and, I am sure, improvement beyond 2012. I make it clear that the network of marine conservation zones designated by the end of 2012 will not be a fixed or static one because the marine environment is highly dynamic. Of course, the network will evolve after 2012 and even after 2020 as pressures on our marine environment change and develop. The important point about 2012 is that Clause 120 requires Ministers to report to Parliament on progress starting in 2012 and at least every six years thereafter. I see that report highlighting the achievement of precisely the type of initial network that these amendments seek to deliver. The report will not only provide details of designated marine conservation zones, including details on the level of protection, but will include any further steps that could be taken to achieve a network of conservation sites. Amendment A160 requires Ministers to define how they will comply with EU or international law in carrying out their duty to designate marine conservation zones in Clause 119. I have already referred to links between marine conservation zones and European sites. Indeed, that is why we have included Clause 119(4) in the Bill. This requires the appropriate authority to have regard to any obligations under EU and international law. However, whether or not it is mentioned in the Bill, the UK is bound by these agreements and is committed to meeting them. The normal way for the UK to define how it will comply with EU legislation is through the process of consultation and policy development with which Members of the Committee are familiar. This has started for the marine strategy framework directive. Inevitably, we will ensure that our Bill and the implementing legislation are consistent with each other. We do not think that it is necessary to write the requirement of 2012 into the Bill. Under the Convention on Biological Diversity and other international fora, our commitments demonstrate our undertaking to achieve the designation of the network, which will also include European sites by 2012. As I have said, that is just a start. This has been a lengthy debate, but it is on the start of Part 5, which many Members of the Committee think is the most important part of this Bill. I know that we will discuss amendments on some of the detail. I hope I have assured the Committee that within the context, as the noble Baroness has said so wisely, of considerable work still to be undertaken on the designation—we have to do the science and the research—the Government also consider this to be at the core of the Bill. We are committed to the designation of marine conservation zones and absolutely understand the need for coherence of networks. I hope that Members of the Committee will feel that, in responding to the amendments, I have answered the question posed by the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, on how serious we are. The issue is very serious.