House of Lords Bill [HL]

My Lords, surely that is what the proposals in the White Paper are about. They are about building on the undoubted strength of your Lordships’ House, but with the benefit of Members being either wholly or mostly elected through the ballot box. That is what the White Paper attempts to achieve. I say to my noble friend Lord Grocott, who is a very wise politician, that of course an elected second Chamber would be more assertive. In the deliberations on the White Paper, we spent many hours discussing the whole issue of primacy and how to maintain it, looking at the conventions. We devoted a great deal of attention to these matters. Primacy will be assured through the Parliament Acts, the financial privilege of the Commons, the fact that the Government maintain their position through the confidence of the Commons, the fact that the Prime Minister and most Ministers are drawn from the Commons and the fact that, under the proposed system, the second Chamber would never have a more recent mandate than the House of Commons. But, yes, the House would be more assertive. In view of the comments that many noble Lords have made about establishing Parliament in a stronger position with the Executive, surely that is an extremely desirable aim. Noble Lords have argued that our commitment to comprehensive reform in the next Parliament is not incompatible with the aims of the Bill. The noble Lord, Lord Steel, has said on several occasions that the Bill should be seen as a tidying-up of the House as it is now and not a measure for the future. I acknowledge that his intention is, as the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, put it, for the Bill to be a staging post. I also acknowledge what my noble friend Lord Howarth said about the reputational image of this House in the light of certain matters that have taken place over the past few weeks. We have made it very clear that measures relating to the conduct and discipline of this House are of cardinal importance. The noble Lord’s Bill makes provision for one aspect of that matter—the disqualification of Members after serious criminal convictions. The Government recognise that there is a strong case—and I take the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Goodhart, about the need for legislation—for considering legislation to address specific issues raised as a result of allegations against Members of this House. We are actively looking at what legislation we might be able to introduce to support this House in disciplining its Members and we are considering what suitable legislative vehicle might be used to take forward those proposals.