Marine and Coastal Access Bill [HL]

This has been a good debate. I ought to start by emphasising the importance of marine plans. They will guide decisions on licensing applications and other issues and, I hope, provide users of the sea with more certainty. Clearly, the process of developing marine plans will bring together coastal managers and users’ communities and enable them to work together and shape the direction of plans from an early stage. We want people to be offered a chance to be involved in the planning process. A participatory planning approach from an early stage will be laid down within the statement of public participation, which we have already discussed. We hope that potential problems and conflicts between marine users will be highlighted at an early stage in the development of marine plans, thus giving much greater opportunity to resolve those kinds of issues and preventing unnecessary delays. I fully accept the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Miller, that in relation to those potential conflicts the Bristol Channel presents some very real challenges. I also accept her point about the strategic importance of the Bristol Chanel to the UK Government, to Wales and to people living in the region. It is important that we get this right in terms of consistency of approach. There is no disagreement with her at all about what she is seeking. The noble Lord, Lord Taylor, referred to the work that my other department, the Department of Energy and Climate Change, has been doing, although with a great deal of input from Defra in relation to Severn tidal power and the feasibility study that has been undertaken. We will shortly publish an interim three-month consultation seeking views on a proposed shortlist of five schemes. As part of that, we are keen to consider innovative schemes that may be less environmentally damaging. However, we acknowledge that the tidal reef and tidal fence are not sufficiently developed technically for more detailed evaluation. We are committed to considering their progress before taking a decision in 2010, after a second public consultation on whether or not to support a Severn tidal power scheme. An additional £500,000 of public funding is being provided to help their development alongside the feasibility study. That focuses attention on the substantive point of the noble Baroness. The desire and need for a consistent approach to planning across the administrative borders is well taken. It is in the interest of both the UK and Welsh Assembly Governments to ensure that technical and legal differences in legislative and policy competence do not give rise to problems for those working in and enjoying the marine area. The noble Baroness gave a good illustration with some of the problems that the fishing industry can encounter if it perceives a difference in approach between two different Administrations. The point is well taken. On the other hand, as the noble Lord made clear, we must also respect the devolution settlement. If the Bill does nothing else, it certainly does that. That is why my response may be a little disappointing to the noble Baroness. However, I say at once that we fully intend to work co-operatively with the Welsh Ministers to produce a coherent management framework for the Bristol Channel. I would be happy to follow up with a letter on how these discussions have gone so far. I assure the noble Lord that fruitful and constructive discussions have taken place, and we want to continue that. We want to provide a seamless experience for users of the Severn estuary while respecting the competence of each Administration to develop and implement policies for their parts of the UK. This debate on the Bristol Channel could easily be a debate about the boundaries between Scotland and England. Indeed, we shall come on to a discussion on that later. The Bill provides a number of reassurances that neighbouring planning authorities will need to co-operate with each other. Before planning commences, notice of intent to plan must be given to any neighbouring planning authority; that is in paragraph 1 of Schedule 6. Steps must be taken to ensure that plans are compatible with any other related marine plan area or land plan, as in paragraph 3 of Schedule 6. There are various other reassurances in that schedule about the involvement of interested parties in consultation. Any marine plan for the Bristol Channel will affect both Welsh and English interests. Both we and Welsh Ministers will of course consult widely on both sides of the border when time comes to plan in the Severn. Cross-border groups, such as the Severn Estuary Partnership, have long experience of bringing together diverse interests and working together across the border, and I assure the noble Baroness that their advice will be invaluable in helping to ensure that Welsh and English proposals for the Severn are coherent and workable for sea users. As for why the Bill makes no provision for joint planning, I earlier implied that it is because of the need to respect the devolution settlement. Our problem may seem technical but is actually substantive. Any cross-border planning power or joint plan authority would give each Administration an effective power, by refusing to adopt the joint plan, to prevent or limit the discretion of the other authority to adopt policies in relation to their own part of the region, or the Bristol Channel in this case. In this case, it could affect the adoption of policies by the UK Government on the English side of the Severn estuary, and the adoption by the Welsh Ministers of their own policies in relation to the Welsh side. Legislative provision requiring such a joint plan authority would need to be acceptable both to UK Government and to the devolved Administrations but, as I have said earlier, the situation may arise in our other border estuaries with Scotland. This is not something that we have sought to cover in legislation, preferring to commit to working together, especially in cross-border situations. Another problem is that the region belonging to the joint plan would have to be defined in the Bill. We do not want to specify the Bristol Channel as a specific marine plan area in the Bill. This is partly because the seaward extent would be unclear, but also because we might want the opportunity to consider all the other factors that might influence the location of plan boundaries within the Severn. Nothing in the Bill prevents two authorities from choosing to plan for adjacent regions at the same time, making use of the same cross-border advisory groups. However, the end result would always be two separate marine plans. We must follow the devolution settlement and the respective statutory responsibilities of the UK Government and Welsh Administration. I hope that the noble Baroness will accept that that is not just a pedantic point. It goes to the heart of how the Bill has been constructed. If she were then to say, ““Well, accepting that, how can you assure me that the two bodies will work together?””, of course the proof will be in the eating. However, from all that I have learnt in the preparation of the Bill, and from meetings and discussions that took place last autumn between the devolved Administrations and the UK Government, there is no doubt about a commitment to working together and ensuring that there is coherence. That is not to say that it will not be difficult; particularly in the Bristol Channel, it will be a challenge. However, there is no reason why we cannot succeed. One must respect the devolution settlement in the requirement of the two bodies to be able to produce their own marine plan. I hope that it will be done with absolute consistency so that users of the sea will be in no doubt about the coherence of the plans that are ultimately adopted.