Marine and Coastal Access Bill [HL]

Public participation is very important indeed to the integrity of the processes for developing both the marine policy statement and subsequently the marine plan, so this is a welcome debate. A number of specific questions have been put to me, and perhaps I may answer those first. The noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, asked whether the word ““they”” used in paragraph 1 of Schedule 5 is meant to be singular or plural. Our response is that it means all or any of those who are going to publish, and I have been advised that as a matter of law, singular implies plural and vice versa—I am sure that that has satisfied her. I should also direct the noble Baroness to the definition of ““policy authority”” in Clause 42(4). I know that she was not able to be present when we debated it, but that clause defines policy authorities as, "““(b) the Secretary of State;""(b) the Scottish Ministers;""(c) the Welsh Ministers;""(d) the Department of the Environment in Northern Ireland””." Perhaps I may also refer her to Clause 43(1) which makes it clear that an MPS, "““may only be prepared by—""(a) all the policy authorities, acting jointly,""(b) the Secretary of State and any one or more other policy authorities acting jointly””—" which allows one or more to duck out of the process— "““or, (c) the Secretary of State””." I hope that putting all this together with paragraph (1) makes it clear to the noble Baroness. As to the question raised by the noble Earl, Lord Cathcart, we are talking about one marine policy statement and one statement of public participation. It is a part of the challenge to which the noble Duke, the Duke of Montrose, referred earlier of ensuring, wishing, expecting and hoping that the UK Government and the devolved Administrations work together. The incentive is that if one of the devolved Administrations does not take part or withdraws, they will lose their influence over the marine policy statement. Taken by and large, and in the light of the discussions that have taken place between Ministers and officials in all the relevant Administrations, we believe there is a general recognition that, while it will be challenging and there will inevitably be tensions, there are powerful incentives to make people want to come together so that one marine policy statement covering the whole of the United Kingdom emerges. In ensuring that that happens and that it is as effective as possible—that it is not, in the words of the noble Duke, motherhood, apple pie and little more—the public participation part of the process will be very important. It will be a document in its own right and it is intended to place into context how it will be used. So anyone who has an interest in or is affected by a proposed marine policy statement or a marine plan will be able to take part in the process. Clearly, although we are debating Schedule 5, Schedule 6 contains similar provisions for marine plans in relation to the statement of public participation. On Amendments 85E and 89C, we would argue that the statement of public participation gives guidance for public participation by setting out how the plan authority must involve people in the development or revision of the MPS and marine plans and the timetable for taking it forward. This would include details of when the plan authority proposes to publish the draft MPS or plan for public consultation. However, we have already given a commitment, which I am happy to reiterate, that we will produce, consult on and publish guidance to the MMO on the expected standards of stakeholder engagement and public participation it is expected to meet when preparing marine plans. All policy and marine plan authorities will be subject to the various legal obligations on public access to information and participation in decision-making arising from both European and domestic legislation. I can confirm that that will include directive 2003/35/EC, providing for public participation in the drawing up of certain plans and programmes relating to the environment, and directive 2001/42/EC on the assessment of the effects of certain plans and programmes on the environment, otherwise known as the SEA directive, which requires public consultation to be held in relation to proposed plans and programmes which may have significant environmental effects. We believe that the requirements are already in place and that we do not have to reiterate our duty to comply with them in preparing the SPP. Amendments 85EA and 85EB seek to alter the provisions in paragraph 4 of Schedule 5 which relate to the publication of the statement of public participation. The noble Baroness, Lady Miller, in particular, referred to that. The current text of paragraph 4(3) requires that the relevant authorities must publish the SPP in a way calculated to bring it to the attention of interested persons. The current wording supports the intention that we have set out, which is to place the authority in no doubt that we want an active process, designed to ensure that interested persons are engaged. We have made it clear that as well as any person who may appear to the authority to be likely to be interested or affected, we want to engage the attention of members of the public. The second amendment would place a requirement on the authority that the effectiveness of the process used to gain the attention of interested persons should be assessed, and that assessment published. We are not anticipating that the development of an SPP for an MPS—I am falling into the same trap that the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, fell into—will be a frequent occurrence, for the reason that my noble friend Lord Davies gave. We hope that a marine policy statement will have a good life before needing to be amended or replaced. Clearly, the authority needs to be aware of the most relevant way available at the time of bringing an SPP to the attention of interested persons. Most consultation and engagement processes result in a summary of that public consultation being made available, and lessons are learnt for the next exercise. Certainly, we have learnt that through the development of the Marine and Coastal Access Bill. We have already given a commitment that guidance will be provided to the Marine Management Organisation on the standards of consultation to which we expect it to adhere. I know that the devolved Administrations also have standards of public consultation and engagement. My whole experience of government suggests that we are engaged continuously in a programme of consultation and engagement. That is right, and it will happen in relation to the arrangements as regards marine policy statements and marine plans. For that reason, we do not really see the benefit of putting the additional requirement on the policy authorities into the Bill. On Amendments 85F and 89F, the statement of public participation will be a living document that will be updated throughout the process of preparing each marine policy statement or plan to take account of any change in priorities, needs and circumstances. This is designed to enable those with an interest to be clear about the anticipated process, consider the involvement that they want to have and plan ahead for it. Amendment 85DD seeks to ensure that an SPP is prepared for revisions to a marine policy statement as well as the marine policy statement prepared originally. The entire process for the preparation of, and amendment to, a marine policy statement is set out in some detail in Schedule 5. Clause 45 enables the policy authorities that originally prepared the MPS to amend it by following exactly the same procedure, as set out in Schedule 5, as was used to prepare the original marine policy statement. This is reiterated in paragraphs 1 and 2 of Schedule 5, which state that, before any policy authorities publish a relevant document—in this case, the marine policy statement—or any amendment to it, as referred to in paragraph 2 of Schedule 5, they must comply with the process set out in Schedule 5, including preparation of an SPP, before they adopt and publish the amendment. I hope that that reassures the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, in particular, that amendments to an MPS will be prepared in the same spirit of openness and participation as the original document. I very much take the point that she has raised. I understand that during public consultation there was concern about the lack of express provision requiring the policy or plan authorities to consider any representations made to them about the quality of the statement of public participation. I reassure noble Lords that, although there is no specific provision in the Bill, there is nothing to prevent anyone from making representations to the policy or marine plan authority about the SPP. If such representations are made, they will be considered. Paragraph 6 of Schedule 5 and paragraph 7 of Schedule 6 place a duty on the policy and plan authorities to revise the SPP if they are satisfied that that is necessary. In response to Amendments 89D and 89E, it may help if I explain the reasoning behind the current reference to public meetings in paragraph 5 of Schedule 5 and paragraph 6 of Schedule 6. From studying international experience and from our experience of holding a number of roadshows during the development of the marine Bill, we fully recognise how useful it is to hold one or more public meetings as part of a public consultation. It is clear that that can be very helpful in enabling some groups of people who would not ordinarily respond to written consultations to make their voices heard and get involved in shaping policies that will affect them. With this in mind, we included a specific reference to the holding of public meetings in these two paragraphs as part of the general public consultation on a draft MPS or plan. I know that we are being invited to compare this Bill with the Planning Act—it is fair game, as only recently did the latter pass through your Lordships’ House—as well as to make comparisons between this approach and that in, let us say, the Town and Country Planning Act 1990, which required the holding of a public inquiry or hearing in response to any objections raised about a proposed local plan. We think that those types of public hearing are more akin to the independent investigation process, which we set out later in Schedule 6 and to which we shall return, because we have tabled some amendments in relation to it. We want to do all that we can to ensure that anyone who wishes to make representations may do so. Paragraph 8 of Schedule 5 and paragraph 12 of Schedule 6 require that any representations be considered by the policy or marine plan authority when it is considering a final text. Public meetings are clearly one way of enabling debate and engagement. They can be extremely helpful, but they are not the only, or sometimes not even the best, way to ensure that people are able to participate. For that reason, we think it odd to require the holding of a public meeting but not other means of enabling participation. We would not want to single out public meetings as the primary—