Climate Change

My Lords, this has been a remarkable debate. Like other noble Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Browne, for securing it and congratulate him not just on the excellence of his opening speech but on his track record, in which he has shown true global leadership. We are indebted to him. The debate has been extraordinarily wide ranging. As the noble Baroness, Lady Wilcox, said, we have extraordinary expertise, including on science, engineering and diplomacy, and we have heard an extraordinary range of speeches on issues from world population to security of energy and all the critical problems that we need to face in dealing with climate change. The debate comes at the start of what we hope will be a momentous year leading up to the discussions and, I hope, agreement at Copenhagen in December. If there is one message that comes home to us all today, it is that we have to work harder than ever to build the political will and economic conditions necessary to convince the world that a shift to a low-carbon economy is not a threat but a global opportunity. As my noble friend Lord Smith and other noble Lords have shown, the latest scientific evidence is clear that climate change is a bigger and more urgent challenge than has previously been understood and the effects are with us now. Last year’s report from the independent Committee on Climate Change has surely shown an even stronger link between human activities and climate change. We know, too, that the impacts of climate change pose a threat to the very security, prosperity and development of nations. I very much agree with the noble Lord, Lord Browne, that action must be taken now. In short, there are four areas where the Government are determined to drive forward progress. First, we need robust mechanisms in place at national, EU and international level to secure a global deal in Copenhagen. Secondly, we must have ambitious targets, but we need to accelerate action to make sure that we meet them; I am not as pessimistic as the noble Lord, Lord Redesdale, on that. Thirdly, we have to demonstrate that we can be pro-growth and pro-fairness as we tackle climate change. Fourthly, and extremely relevant to the title of today’s debate, we have to take public opinion with us. I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Wilcox, that part of doing that is using a language that people can understand. As someone new to this field, I still struggle with the words ““climate change mitigation”” and ““climate change adaptation””. The problem is that only a small group of people understand and talk this language; if they think that anyone else understands it, I can tell them that we do not. We need to work hard if we are to meet the challenge identified by both my noble friend Lord Giddens and the noble Lord, Lord May. We have to think about the language that we use in the future. The remarks of the noble Lord, Lord May, and his record as chief scientist and as a member of the Committee on Climate Change speak for themselves. It was a remarkable contribution, in which he talked about the evolution of co-operation and the requirement for nations to collaborate in equitable proportions. He reminded us of the responsibility of OECD countries in terms of greenhouse gas emissions. I thought that his analysis of why small upfront costs for this country could produce major paybacks, whatever others do, and show some early returns was a positive message, which was echoed by the noble Lord, Lord Rees. The advice of the Committee on Climate Change indicates that the costs to this country of meeting the 80 per cent target are affordable. The implication of its advice is that the sooner we get on with this task, the lower the end cost will be. My noble friend Lord Giddens talked about the political issues and the challenges of taking action in relation to a long-term risk. He spoke of the problems of getting public support for action, which, if delayed, could make catastrophe unavoidable. He called it the paradox. I thought that we had an example of that this morning with the Question on light bulbs. If ever there was a no-brainer of a decision, it is the one taken on light bulbs. Yet we need only contemplate the opposition even in your Lordships’ House—a more rational place is not to be found anywhere, I am sure—to see that such a matter runs into trouble and difficulty. That shows the scale of the challenge. I agree with my noble friend that too much focus on fear is perhaps not likely to produce the change in behaviour and attitude that is required. Equally, going back to what the noble Baroness, Lady Wilcox, said, we must have a straight conversation with the people of this country in a language that they can understand. I pay tribute to the Environment Agency and my noble friend Lord Smith, as they have a major role to play in this communication. Flooding is a particular area of the Environment Agency’s expertise. I also mention the extraordinary work at Hadley with the UK climate projections that are due to be published in the next few months. Although it will be sobering to see the forecasts and their impact, none the less they may enable us to have a serious conversation not just with the public but with all the businesses and public sector organisations that have to think now about the changes that they will have to make in relation to both mitigation and adaptation. It is extremely important work in parallel with that of the Environment Agency. My noble friend asked about visible and progressive business leaders being seen to take a leading role. I agree that we have business champions but clearly they do not have the visibility at present. He has set us a challenge to see what more we can do. The great benefit of the Stern review and the Committee on Climate Change, chaired by the noble Lord, Lord Turner, is that they comprised, if I can describe them as such, hard-headed people who did not come with any particular angle but were seen to do robust analysis. That has had a huge impact in getting people not just in this country but in many others to recognise that we face a most serious problem. I say to the noble Baroness, Lady Wilcox, that of course I accept that government departments must practise what they preach and that we have not done all that we should. The development of carbon budgets over the next year or two will be a powerful way of ensuring that they do just that. I reject what she and the noble Lords, Lord Smith and Lord Redesdale, said about Heathrow. That was well debated in the other place yesterday but the point is that—apart from the stringent controls on any further development at Heathrow—under the EU Emissions Trading Scheme the expansion will not lead to any increase in emissions. We have also announced a new target to get aviation emissions in 2050 below 2005 levels. I understand where the noble Lord, Lord Redesdale, is coming from, but he does not like the target approach in the first place. Provided that the target approach has integrity—I agree with him about that—there should be flexibility within it. The noble Lords, Lord Browne, Lord Hannay and Lord Smith, referred to the international negotiations. Clearly the next few months will be critical. I note the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, about the recent European negotiations. He was right to identify that they were challenging. None the less, we have reached agreement on strengthening the EU ETS and we have secured political agreement on the EU renewables directive. However, the critical decisions and negotiations are ahead of us. I believe that the UK can play a leading role not least because of the passage of the Climate Change Act and the 80 per cent GHG emission reduction by 2050. One should not underestimate the impact that that has had. I know from my discussions with Ministers in a number of other countries that it has been noticed. We have to make the most of it. The noble Lord, Lord Hannay, rightly referred to burden sharing. Developed countries have to take the lead and there is a need for differentiation of actions between developing countries. It will then be a challenge to agree on how those actions can best be measured, reported and verified. However, we are very anxious to do that. Climate change is already a reality, so adaptation must be considered a priority and part of the Copenhagen agreement. Part of that must be for developed countries to improve access to new, additional and predictable financial flows and to help developing countries to build their capacity to meet their commitments. I say to my noble friend Lord Giddens that part of our work with other countries is done under memorandums of understanding. Since I have been in this job, I have been impressed to know how much we are doing on that. The noble Lord, Lord Hannay, also talked about supporting developing countries. It is interesting that, in the negotiations around the EU Emissions Trading Scheme, the Council adopted a political declaration indicating member states’ willingness to spend at least half of the revenues to tackle climate change in the EU and developing countries. We all have great expectations of the new US Administration. We are looking forward to working with them and offering any support that we can towards the US taking early domestic action on climate and energy and engaging in international negotiations. We are also keen to share UK and EU experience on climate and energy policies, such as carbon trading. On the economy, I agree with all noble Lords that the key message from this debate is that the economic downturn does not, cannot and should not mean a retreat from equally important longer-term objectives. Indeed, they can and must go hand in hand. The Stern review of the economics of climate change demonstrated the consequences if we were to fall for the argument that in the economic downturn we cannot afford to invest in climate change mitigation and adaptations. We cannot go down that path. I believe that building a low-carbon economy in this country offers great prospects for our future. It is clearly the way we should be going. I know that a number of noble Lords, including my noble friend Lord Smith, were concerned about whether the Government have got their act together in this area. We will set out our vision of how companies can take advantage of the green opportunities in our economy in our low-carbon industrial strategy in the summer. I echo the remarks made by the noble Lord, Lord Broers, that, just as we rely on our extraordinary science base, I acknowledge the expertise and brilliance of our engineers. His point about ensuring that the advice of engineers is fully to hand in policy development was very well made. It is remarkable that, whatever the debate, we often come back to energy supply, energy security and future requirements. It is clear that we are going to need a wide variety of technologies, whether renewables, nuclear or carbon capture and storage, as well as coal. The signs are generally positive on future investments, although, given the global downturn, there are some immediate issues that need to be faced up to. The takeover of British Energy by EDF was the foundation for the new nuclear that is starting to be built, with the first new station due to be online in 2017. Other companies are now interested in new nuclear. We are also seeing investment in gas storage facilities. We have been set a tough target on renewables. We need to do everything that we can to make sure that we reach it and take advantage of the renewables technology that we have developed in this country. My noble friend Lord Smith talked about tidal power and marine power. I agree that we have a technological lead. Let us make sure that, in contrast with previous efforts in the energy sector, we take advantage of that. The noble Lord, Lord Dixon-Smith, spoke about the interesting link between farming, energy and climate change. He reminded us that farming can have a positive role in relation to adaptation. We need to focus on that. For example, many farmers have taken the initiative on anaerobic digestion. I will refer the issue raised by the noble Lord, Lord Redesdale; I understand that it is a matter for the Environment Agency, to which I will make sure that his remarks are referred. I say to the noble Lords, Lord Rees and Lord Dixon-Smith, that we are one of only four countries that are committed to supporting a commercial-scale project demonstrating the full chain of CCS. When it is operational in 2014, it is likely to be the first commercial-scale demonstration of the full chain of CCS with post-combustion capture technology on a coal-fired power station. This is very expensive, but we have been active in promoting the competition and in negotiating in Europe. I was disappointed by those remarks that suggested that in some way the UK is behind the curve on this. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Dixon-Smith, about energy saving. Alongside the other changes that need to be made, much can be done in the energy saving field. I think that it was the noble Lord, Lord May, who suggested that it was an example of where some smallish upfront investment would show returns very quickly. He will know that that argument is frequently made to our friends in Her Majesty’s Treasury, but it is sometimes difficult to convince them. It is a good example of how, although we talk about climate change—certainly its worst effects—being a long time ahead, some small changes now can make an immediate improvement. That is one way of countering the danger of pessimism that could inhibit appropriate action. It is one of my worries that, when we talk about targets and people talk about the possibility of never reaching them, there is a danger that people think that it is not worth trying. Part of being realistic with the public is to remember that actions can be taken that can show an immediate effect. I thought that the remarks made by the noble Baroness, Lady Flather, about population issues were very interesting, particularly in the face of the population predictions over the next 10, 20 or 30 years. Alongside energy security and food security, population is an important matter to consider. At the beginning of my speech, I said that I thought that the debate had been quite remarkable. I end by saying that it has been a real privilege to have taken part in it. The noble Lord, Lord Browne, has done us a great service. Climate change represents probably the biggest challenge that we will all face. It is a huge challenge. It presents many difficulties for politicians. Some of them are immediate, because of the difficult decisions that have to be made, but we should be in no doubt that this Government are determined to make the right decisions. We are in a good position to give global leadership, but there is an awful lot to be done, particularly over the next few months leading up to Copenhagen.