Marine and Coastal Access Bill [HL]

My Lords, I am not sure that it is but, rather than getting myself into too deep water, I shall write to the noble Earl. I am not at all sure that he has got that right. Certainly, the important point is that it would be wrong to presume that the designation of a marine conservation zone will result in closure to fisheries, notwithstanding the general concern that I share with noble Lords about the whole question of fish and conservation, which is crucial in terms both of sustainability and the environment and of the health of the fisheries industry. My noble friend Lord Whitty made a number of important points, which I very much agree with, about the management of inshore fisheries and the new inshore fisheries conservation authorities. Before coming on to talk about coastal access and devolution, which are two important matters, I say to my noble friend Lord Berkeley that talks are continuing between this Government and the Irish Government on the extraordinarily important matter that he mentioned. As far as the question of unilateral action is concerned, I would hesitate in encouraging us to go down that route. My noble friend knew what I was going to say. We enjoy the benefit of an integrated and safe service of aids to navigation. Clearly, we wish to enjoy the strongest relationship possible with the Irish Government, so it is sensible to allow these interesting discussions to continue, rather than threatening unilateral action within the confines of the Bill. Coastal access is very important and, in general, noble Lords support it. I believe it to be an important and worthwhile measure. I understand that there are some serious points that noble Lords will wish to debate. My experience of coastal paths is, like others’, with the south-west path, which I have very much enjoyed walking on in the noble Lord’s former constituency. Frankly, it is absolutely magnificent; it is wonderful that so many people are allowed access to that wonderful coastline. The path is integrated with public transport, although one sometimes has to walk a long way inland to find the buses. None the less, it does work, and it is the south-west that I tend to think of when I think of the coastal pathway. I understand the points raised by noble Lords that there are different conditions in different parts of the country. One has to be careful when walking around some parts of that path route. Why is Natural England to be given the leadership role? Why can it not be left to local authorities? Last week, in the Queen’s Speech debate, we were pressing the case for local authorities to be given absolute freedom. On Friday, in relation to waste, noble Lords wished to dictate to local government every single action that it was to take. We tend to move this way and that when it comes to the role of local authorities. It is necessary for there to be national leadership and consistency. That is why we believe that the prime duty must be placed on Natural England. I entirely accept that of course individual local authorities also have a critical role to play. This will not work effectively unless local authorities are fully involved. I very much took the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, and other noble Lords about the need for local ownership. I fully reassure noble Lords that we expect and will require local authorities to be important partners in this process. Indeed, on the point raised by the noble Baroness and the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, of how you ensure that walkers should gain access to and from the coastal path, I would say that not only landowners but local authorities play a vital role. I understand the point about the protection of wildlife. As under the CROW Act, there will be flexibility and powers for Natural England to decide on any exclusions or restrictions. I also understand the concern about risks. I hope that we will not become such a risk-averse society that we are not prepared for people to walk along the coastal path. For landowners, there is a question of liability and I understand their concerns. The Bill proposes that the provision in the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000 to limit liability related to natural features should be carried into the coastal provisions. We recognise the significance of non-natural features on the coast and we will be proposing to limit liability relating to non-natural features of the landscape as well. I hope that that will provide some reassurance. Many noble Lords feel strongly about the right of appeal. Mention has been made of the appeal system that has been used in relation to CROW in the determination of more than 3,000 appeals. Of course, there are differences. The CROW appeal system was based on a matter of fact—whether the land was mountain, moor, heath or down—whereas the decisions of Natural England about proposing a route under this Bill are more about the application of policy to facts on the ground. We believe that the system of consultation and representations in the Bill, together with other safeguards, get to the heart of the requirement to strike a fair balance between the interests of the public and the interests of those with a stake in the land. I refer noble Lords to Clause 92, which sets out how representations can be made to the Secretary of State. I am aware, however, that we will be coming back to that point in due course. The noble Lord, Lord Greenway, asked about costs. He will have seen the projected figures in relation to coastal access impact assessment. I stand by those figures. I understand the pressures; equally, we have to ensure that the money is used in the most effective way. As with coastal access, I suspect that we will discuss devolution in relation to every part of the Bill. Having been a Whip during some of our consideration of the Scotland devolution Bill, I very much look forward to that. As a general principle, the marine environment is a complex mixture of devolved, reserved and non-devolved matters. Devolution is a reality and this Bill contains a set of provisions that respect the current settlement. The agreement that we have reached with colleagues in the devolved Administrations means that the Bill before your Lordships’ House delivers a UK-wide system of marine planning, with all four Administrations intending to develop and agree a marine policy statement to set a new strategic framework for the seas. That has the full support of all the devolved Administrations, who have committed themselves to delivering a coherent set of policies and systems across the UK for the benefit of stakeholders. That is a statement of principle. I recognise that there will be tensions and that much work will be needed to ensure that this works in practice. The noble Lord, Lord Glentoran, asked about managing the marine area across territories between Scotland and Northern Ireland and between Wales and the Republic of Ireland. It is a good question. He knows that the Bill provides for a UK-wide marine policy statement. Clearly, wherever there are boundaries between different jurisdictions, the authorities on either side of a line will share a view on what the UK as a whole is aiming to achieve. As regards waters adjacent to the Republic of Ireland where it is not possible for us to legislate, there is nothing to prevent us from reaching agreement, and we would seek to do so. The Bill does not devolve further powers to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. It is based on the existing devolution settlement. However, we have agreed to a form of executive devolution of some of the Bill’s functions to provide for a more coherent delivery of the common objectives that we share. Of course, different countries will make different remarks and will have different ambitions, but I am satisfied that the four countries concerned recognise the need for consistency of purpose to make sense of the marine environment and all the other issues that we have discussed. The Government will work very hard indeed to ensure that we achieve that. I am afraid that I have gone over my time. This has been a splendid Second Reading. It has raised a lot of interesting questions. There is a general consensus on the importance of the Bill and what it seeks to achieve. Legitimate questions have been raised about some of the detail. I suspect that we can look forward to enjoying one or two arguments in the next few months. I thank all noble Lords who have spoken. I very much hope that we shall enjoy further consensual debate in the future. Bill read a second time and committed to a Committee of the Whole House.