Education and Skills Bill

I declare a sort of interest in that, as you know, Madam Deputy Speaker, my wife was the head of a primary school for a number of years. I pay tribute to Dr. Bernard Trafford, who will be well known to the hon. Member for South Staffordshire (Sir Patrick Cormack), who I see in his place. Dr. Trafford is the former head of Wolverhampton grammar school, who has taken a national lead on the issue of democracy in schools and the question of schools councils. In fact, he wrote a very informative booklet on the matter, which I have read and would recommend to right hon. and hon. Members. I would like a little further clarification from the Minister: although I am not nearly as sceptical as the hon. Member for Bognor Regis and Littlehampton (Mr. Gibb), I am still somewhat sceptical. I appreciate that what would become, under amendment No. 171, section 29A(1) of the Education Act 2002 includes the word ““must””, as the hon. Gentleman has just explained. The full provision would read:"““The governing body of a maintained school must invite the views of pupils about prescribed matters.””" That brings us on to what those ““prescribed matters”” are. That is explained in subsection (4), where we find that they ““may be prescribed”” by the Secretary of State in England, and Welsh Ministers in Wales. That ““may be”” is therefore permissive. However, paragraphs (a) and (b) seem to be so widely drawn in respect of the matters that the Secretary of State ““may”” prescribe that I would like the Minister's reassurance. Paragraph (a) refers to"““the exercise, or proposed exercise, of a function of the governing body of a maintained school relating to the conduct of the school””," and paragraph (b) to"““the exercise, or proposed exercise, of such a function in a particular way.””" The function of a governing body of a school—I speak as someone who was a governor of a secondary school in my constituency for four years—is basically to run the school. If the Secretary of State may prescribe what the governors do, my understanding is that anything ““may be prescribed”” down to the last jot and tittle or the last comma in the running of a school. I hope that that is not the Government's intention—I would appreciate my right hon. Friend's reassurance on that, particularly with respect to hiring and firing. I may be misreading the provision, but it seems to me that under what would become section 29A (2),"““the governing body of a maintained school must consider any relevant views of registered pupils””," which suggests something contrary to what I understood my right hon. Friend to state in his opening remarks. It seems to suggest that the school must, on any number of issues that may be prescribed under subsection (4), consult every pupil in order to find out whether they have a relevant view or not. If the pupil does have a relevant view, the governing body, in exercising its functions pursuant to the regulations, must decide how much weight to give to it. How does it discover whether pupils have a relevant view or not? One assumes that the governing body has to ask them. As I said, I may be misreading the amendment, but contrary to what I understood the Minister to say, there is a ““how”” about these matters because they cover everything. If my interpretation is correct, everything in a maintained school is covered—including hiring and firing. I understand the desire to make pupils feel included, particularly if we are going to move to compulsory education or training up to the age of 18—that means we are dealing with near-adults whose views should be taken into account; indeed, it is important to take account even of primary school pupils' views through school councils—but how much weight we accord those views, particularly when it comes to hiring and firing, can be an immensely delicate matter. I thus seek my right hon. Friend's reassurance that the Secretary of State, in making regulations under proposed new section 29A(4), will not include issues of hiring and firing in them.